Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

mwpt

kabayiri wrote: »

There is nothing stopping the SNP trying to extend it's reach outside Scotland. It seems churlish to complain about lack of representation when you choose to limit your campaign in a UK-wide election.

I kid you not, I know someone who was convinced by Nicola Sturgeon in the TV debates and so turned up at his local polling station ready to vote for the SNP candidate... in his London borough.

Leanne1812

I'm abroad at the moment so haven't seen QT or Scotland Tonight but I've just watched a short clip of QT and it demonstrated the message scots were continuously told pre ref. Vote No to stay in the EU. I don't recall vote No to stay in the EU but do bear in mind it may all change in less than 2 years.

No.

The message was clearly as above. No person who paid any attention to the referendum could dispute this.

Leanne1812

mwpt wrote: »

I kid you not, I know someone who was convinced by Nicola Sturgeon in the TV debates and so turned up at his local polling station ready to vote for the SNP candidate... in his London borough.

And he wasn't & isn't alone there :T

LABMAN

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I'm abroad at the moment so haven't seen QT or Scotland Tonight but I've just watched a short clip of QT and it demonstrated the message scots were continuously told pre ref. Vote No to stay in the EU. I don't recall vote No to stay in the EU but do bear in mind it may all change in less than 2 years.

No.

The message was clearly as above. No person who paid any attention to the referendum could dispute this.

We were not told to vote No in order to stay in the EU. We were asked to vote No to stay in the UK!


You say you are not in the UK? Are you on this planet even?

Leanne1812

LABMAN wrote: »

We were not told to vote No in order to stay in the EU. We were asked to vote No to stay in the UK!


You say you are not in the UK? Are you on this planet even?

To stay in both the UK & the EU. Didn't think that needed explaining but there you go.

Maybe take time to read the posts previously & understand.

It's no problem. Anytime

.string.

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I'm abroad at the moment so haven't seen QT or Scotland Tonight but I've just watched a short clip of QT and it demonstrated the message scots were continuously told pre ref. Vote No to stay in the EU. I don't recall vote No to stay in the EU but do bear in mind it may all change in less than 2 years.

No.

The message was clearly as above. No person who paid any attention to the referendum could dispute this.

On "thick" - I agree you did not explicitly say that (I grant you that); I took it though as implicit since any person paying attention would have to have been thick not to have known that Voting know would mean that the two main parties were both pro Europe officially and one, the Tories, would nevertheless be holding a referendum on the subject.

An audience member said as much during QT by the way.

Referring to your remarks above, as I recall, the important issue at the time was really the certainty (yes certainty although of course that was denied by the SNP) that a yes vote would have meant Scotland not being in the EU but having to apply for membership. We Unionists all agreed membership would be granted would be possible eventually but not instantly.

PS have a good holiday. I recommend not looking here until you get back. I've found it can spoil the mood!

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

To stay in both the UK & the EU. Didn't think that needed explaining but there you go.

Maybe take time to read the posts previously & understand.

It's no problem. Anytime

as I recall Cameron's EU referendum promise was made in January 2013.

Shakethedisease

LABMAN wrote: »

We were not told to vote No in order to stay in the EU. We were asked to vote No to stay in the UK!


You say you are not in the UK? Are you on this planet even?

Yes we were. Repeatedly. I debated it endlessly here, and I distinctly remember when I brought up an EU referendum being told that 'it will never happen'. I don't know what planet I'm on, but you and most of the posters above were clearly were nowhere near Scotland during the three year ref campaign. Generali certainly wasn't.

A No vote was the ONLY way to stay in the EU. Labour were leading in the the polls at the time. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that people like Leanne and myself have some sort of collective amnesia. This message was everywhere, and repeated as such in every newspaper, news feeds, media outlets and tv politics show going. As well as here come to that. We burnt through threads on this issue, not ONCE was it ever suggested except by myself, that an EU referendum could mean the departure of the UK, and thus Scotland anyway.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

as I recall Cameron's EU referendum promise was made in January 2013.

Labour were leading in the polls in the run up to the Scottish referendum. If the Tories had been, there would've been a Yes vote.

The Conservatives had promised one, and did eventually include it in their manifesto, published some months after the indyref. But Labour were opposed, and had been since January 2013. Throughout 2013 and 2014 Ed Miliband’s party had a comfortable lead in the opinion polls – in September 2014, the month of the indyref, Labour’s average poll lead was 3.9%.

( from Wings with sources ).

Swinney was totally correct last night. Voting No was presented as the only way to stay in the EU. There was no suggestion that an EU referendum was on the cards, and if there was ( mainly from pro- independence people ), it was dismissed out of hand as laughable nonsense. That's exactly what happened on this board also.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Regarding the neverendum discussion - It was cringe-worthy for Swinney to spout on about the decision on whether to have another referendum being the choice of the Scottish people. He was quizzed a bit on how the matter would be decided and really let the cat out of the bag.

It was a great pity no-one took him up on the remark he made which was (para-phrasing), a Referendum will be held ... "If the Scottish people want it and IF THERE IS A CLEAR MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE".

That showed very clearly that a decision would be nothing to do with the will of the Scottish people, it was simply a tool of SNP Party Policy.

Suppose that there was a clear majority for staying in the Union (as there would be now I suspect), or if the general mood was that a Referendum should be held to put the question to bed (not the case now) would they hold a Referendum? Of course not.

Unfortunately no-one hammered him on that one.

String you're getting very confused with your reasoning. For the very, very simple fact of the matter is :- That if it doesn't look like being a Yes vote next time, in other words that a majority of Scots want to leave the UK. Then there isn't a hope in hell of the SNP calling another referendum.

So Swinney is correct. It will indeed be the 'will of the Scottish people' because if it isn't, there won't be another referendum. What exactly would the point of that be ? Calling a referendum only to lose it. That's where your argument falls on it's a**e unfortunately.

They'll call a referendum when they're almost certain to win it. They will be private polling for sure watching to see any jumps or steady increases for the next few years. Or indeed falls come to that. Sturgeon and Swinney are far more cautious operators in charge than Salmond was.