Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

so, in the unlikely event that the UK leaves the EU, scotland gets more powers so the scots voters won't want to leave the UK

It's just messy. And not as simple as dredging up the old Project Fear 'Scotland will have to reapply' stuff. Things would be reversed from 2014 with England out and Scotland remaining.

There is no question imo of Scotland leaving the EU should Scotland vote the way the polls currently suggest. Even in the unlikely event ( as you say ) that the rUK does vote out. Staying 'safely' within the EU was one of the very strong reasons why many voted No.

The prof above is simply pointing out that a lot of things that are covered by EU law and responsibilities, would default to Holyrood in the event of a Brexit, not Westminster. Complicated.

.string.

Taking another look at this thread, I see there's a lot of day-dreaming going on.

Cameron stated today that, according to EU Law, the negotiations would be according to a time table of 2 years and at the end of that, if no agreement was reached, the EU Membership is terminated unless agreed otherwise, unanimously, by the EU states (not clear if that includes agreement by the UK).

As far as powers reverting to Scotland are concerned. One should not forget that EU laws have been put into effect by the passing of UK laws. Some would be kept because they are useful, others repealed, but it would not be an instant process.

I don't see how a non independent country can negotiated with the EU to enter the fold, especially when it lacks a mandate from a Referendum, and also when it expects a vast dowry from the EU to accompany its membership.

The EU referendum will be interesting in a number of ways, not least in seeing how the SNP handle the situation when they support the continuation of belonging to a Union and also, on the other side, the Leave lot arguing to leave a Union and how an uncertain future is so attractive. Comparisons with the separation arguments will be made. In a way, Cameron has already started this by referring a number of times to the result of the EU referendum lasting a Generation.
Crazy times.

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

so, in the unlikely event that the UK leaves the EU, scotland gets more powers so the scots voters won't want to leave the UK

Dream team scenario eh!

-> UK leaves EU
-> Scotland inherits more powers
-> SNP demand independence
-> Westminster agree, blaming the evil EUrocrats

What's not to like...an independence for Scotland where Westminster is not to blame; it's just an unfortunate byproduct of the will of the Union.

elantan

I'm gonna be honest here ( with tongue firmly in cheek) I reckon the UK is too wee, too poor and far too stupid to mange without the EU ... I also worry about the pensions, and the pound and what if all those companies decide to pull out ?

We just couldn't manage it

Or maybe I should just eat ma cereal:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I'm having so much fun and it's just started

Watched Robin in indy live from the RIC conference, he was very good, gave me butterflies, very persuasive

Generali

elantan wrote: »

I'm gonna be honest here ( with tongue firmly in cheek) I reckon the UK is too wee, too poor and far too stupid to mange without the EU ... I also worry about the pensions, and the pound and what if all those companies decide to pull out ?

We just couldn't manage it

Or maybe I should just eat ma cereal:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I'm having so much fun and it's just started

Watched Robin in indy live from the RIC conference, he was very good, gave me butterflies, very persuasive

I can't imagine the UK leaving the EU ending well, innit.

mwpt

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm afraid your own argument falls completely to bits after 10 seconds on Google with the search term 'countries who have gained independence'. In fact, 'countries who have gained their independence from the United Kingdom would even do. Lines in the ground seem to matter somehow. Scotland wouldn't be the first or the last ever to entertain the notion of self governance in the world. Why don't you explain that ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom

I don't see how this addresses my point. Scotland can obviously leave the UK. I just think your reasons for wanting to do so are emotional based on your very important lines in the sand, rather than rational.

I still expect that if you're consistent then you'll respect other lines in the sand by a different name and grant Edinburgh independence (hypothetically).

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Taking another look at this thread, I see there's a lot of day-dreaming going on.

Cameron stated today that, according to EU Law, the negotiations would be according to a time table of 2 years and at the end of that, if no agreement was reached, the EU Membership is terminated unless agreed otherwise, unanimously, by the EU states (not clear if that includes agreement by the UK).

As far as powers reverting to Scotland are concerned. One should not forget that EU laws have been put into effect by the passing of UK laws. Some would be kept because they are useful, others repealed, but it would not be an instant process.

Teensy weeny wee problem there. Scotland has it's own legal system. EU laws are incorporated into Scottish law where applicable. That's why there are some huge question marks over the Conservative's wanting to ditch the European Human Rights Act in the UK. No one is sure if it will apply to Scotland or NI.

I don't see how a non independent country can negotiated with the EU to enter the fold, especially when it lacks a mandate from a Referendum, and also when it expects a vast dowry from the EU to accompany its membership.

Scotland and her citizens are already in the fold. If there's a Brexit vote then it's Scotland that will want the status quo regarding the EU. It's more than likely they will get it too. EU law is already in place.

The EU referendum will be interesting in a number of ways, not least in seeing how the SNP handle the situation when they support the continuation of belonging to a Union and also, on the other side, the Leave lot arguing to leave a Union and how an uncertain future is so attractive. Comparisons with the separation arguments will be made. In a way, Cameron has already started this by referring a number of times to the result of the EU referendum lasting a Generation.
Crazy times.

It's not an issue. The SNP maintained they wanted Scotland to remain in the EU all through the independence referendum campaign. No one is in the least surprised that they still do. What's the problem there ?

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

I'm gonna be honest here ( with tongue firmly in cheek) I reckon the UK is too wee, too poor and far too stupid to mange without the EU ... I also worry about the pensions, and the pound and what if all those companies decide to pull out ?

We just couldn't manage it

Or maybe I should just eat ma cereal:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I'm having so much fun and it's just started

Watched Robin in indy live from the RIC conference, he was very good, gave me butterflies, very persuasive

I see the Remain campaign has rolled all the big guns out tonight in terms of 'OMG jobs will go, food prices will go up, the £ will tank, borrowing up, mobile phone charges, the usual suspects/big corporations writing letters in the Times'. I know it's a short campaign but one can't help but wonder of they've shot the craw too early.

I'm bored already. Heard it all before. I hope it's a Remain vote but Project Fear part 2 is alive and well. Using those same tactics they managed to lose a full 20/5 point lead in Scotland.

Shakethedisease

mwpt wrote: »

I don't see how this addresses my point. Scotland can obviously leave the UK. I just think your reasons for wanting to do so are emotional based on your very important lines in the sand, rather than rational.

I still expect that if you're consistent then you'll respect other lines in the sand by a different name and grant Edinburgh independence (hypothetically).

The reasons are political in nature rather than emotional. I've maintained that from the start. Those that voted Yes want to see full political power's concerning Scotland at Holyrood.

In Edinburgh ( for real ).

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I see the Remain campaign has rolled all the big guns out tonight in terms of 'OMG jobs will go, food prices will go up, the £ will tank, borrowing up, mobile phone charges, the usual suspects/big corporations writing letters in the Times'. I know it's a short campaign but one can't help but wonder of they've shot the craw too early.

I'm bored already. Heard it all before. I hope it's a Remain vote but Project Fear part 2 is alive and well. Using those same tactics they managed to lose a full 20/5 point lead in Scotland.

Aye I was thinking that masel, far too early for these ploys, hilarious to watch though with nothing new