Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Tedious stuff. We're back in 2011, then 2014 again. And don't we just know it.

And anyway Clapton, you're a 'separatist' yourself now. Time to change the record in case you end up getting the same 'racism' stuff chucked right back at you.

but you still refuse to explain how being a country/nation/state is different from being Yorkshire except a certain dislike of the english.

mwpt

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I agree, Scotland isn't a sovereign country. The referendum was indeed to decide whether we should be. Does not take away from the fact that Scotland is a country even though some on here like to insist it isn't....

I'm not really sure of all the legal definitions but I'm happy enough to call Scotland a country because they play rugby as a country, good enough for me.

Apparently Scotland has the right to secede from the UK, obviously since we had a referendum, and you would have become an independent country.

Would you guys grant the City of Edinburgh independence from Scotland if the people voted to remain as part of the UK?

zagubov

What cities have become independent countries in recent history? Or is this just a political experiment like the poll tax that only the Scots should be guinea-pigs for? By an amazing coincidence at the same time as they consider autonomy.

Oh and what does reductio ad absurdum mean.

elantan

Is the city of Edinburgh a country ?

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

What cities have become independent countries in recent history? Or is this just a political experiment like the poll tax that only the Scots should be guinea-pigs for? By an amazing coincidence at the same time as they consider autonomy.

Oh and what does reductio ad absurdum mean.

Singapore and look what a disaster that was


Anyway the reason scotland should become a sovereign state, is EXACTLY the same as if Yorkshire should become a sovereign state: that is because the people there want it and not because one is called a country and the other a county.
Try to move away from 1000 year ago and enter the 21st century even if you do still want to sing songs about killing the english.

mwpt

zagubov wrote: »

What cities have become independent countries in recent history? Or is this just a political experiment like the poll tax that only the Scots should be guinea-pigs for? By an amazing coincidence at the same time as they consider autonomy.

Oh and what does reductio ad absurdum mean.

Forget the notion of a city please. Consider a region, which contains Edinburgh. I believe eductio ad absurdum is appropriate.

mwpt

elantan wrote: »

Is the city of Edinburgh a country ?

Can someone just answer the question? Would you be prepared to grant a region independence from Scotland?

Shakethedisease

mwpt wrote: »

Can someone just answer the question? Would you be prepared to grant a region independence from Scotland?

Definitely the same old arguments. Didn't we already do Shetland etc a few years back, and then again on this thread.. several times ?

The answer would be that it would depend on the criteria. But the UK is a political union, the joining voluntarily of two separate parliaments in 1707. Some in Scotland would like to see that political union now reversed. It's as simple as that.

Yorkshire and Edinburgh or Shetland didn't join any political unions in Westminster in the last 300 years as separate entities in Acts of Union. Yorkshire came with England in the UK, Edinburgh and Shetland came with Scotland in to the UK.

Should Yorkshire/Edinburgh/Shetland ever wish to gain independence from the UK on their own. Then they would have to seek a democratic mandate to do so. But as far as Scotland going independent goes, Shetland and Edinburgh came into the Union with Scotland, and so will leave with Scotland should there be ( again ) a political mandate to do so.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Definitely the same old arguments. Didn't we already do Shetland etc a few years back, and then again on this thread.. several times ?

The answer would be that it would depend on the criteria. But the UK is a political union, the joining voluntarily of two separate parliaments in 1707. Some in Scotland would like to see that political union now reversed. It's as simple as that.

Yorkshire and Edinburgh or Shetland didn't join any political unions in Westminster in the last 300 years as separate entities in Acts of Union. Yorkshire came with England in the UK, Edinburgh and Shetland came with Scotland in to the UK.

Should Yorkshire/Edinburgh/Shetland ever wish to gain independence from the UK on their own. Then they would have to seek a democratic mandate to do so. But as far as Scotland going independent goes, Shetland and Edinburgh came into the Union with Scotland, and so will leave with Scotland should there be ( again ) a political mandate to do so.

you really have no regard for democracy at all do you?
I guess that consistent with the SNP wanting a one party state as soon as possible.
Neither the people of england nor scotland voted for union : just try for a little to move into the 21st century, forget the hatred of the english and consider democracy as paramount.

mwpt

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Definitely the same old arguments. Didn't we already do Shetland etc a few years back, and then again on this thread.. several times ?

The answer would be that it would depend on the criteria. But the UK is a political union, the joining voluntarily of two separate parliaments in 1707. Some in Scotland would like to see that political union now reversed. It's as simple as that.

Yorkshire and Edinburgh or Shetland didn't join any political unions in Westminster in the last 300 years as separate entities in Acts of Union. Yorkshire came with England in the UK, Edinburgh and Shetland came with Scotland in to the UK.

Should Yorkshire/Edinburgh/Shetland ever wish to gain independence from the UK on their own. Then they would have to seek a democratic mandate to do so. But as far as Scotland going independent goes, Shetland and Edinburgh came into the Union with Scotland, and so will leave with Scotland should there be ( again ) a political mandate to do so.

That was a glorious bit of politics, answered artfully but without really answering.

But I think what I took away from that was that if the people of the region of (say) Shetland willed it, you'd be happy for them to gain independence from Scotland. I don't know what a democratic mandate means apart from the people wanting it.