Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Interesting times ahead.....I personally don't think we will see another referendum within 4/5 years. But anything could happen depending on next years results.

Westminster policies starting to bite might well be a game changer.

I'm actually hoping, probably in vain I know... that the Scotland Bill as it is, will be presented, debated in Holyrood... then put to the Scottish people to vote on. It's us that have to live with it and it's consequences after all. And it's SO obvious that's it's not what people were hoping for after the referendum in terms of real, meaningful powers. I don't think a poison chalice of Scottish Govt's mitigating Westminster cuts for the forseeable future was quite what Gordon Brown had in mind. Or at least, I hope not !

So all of the three variants of Holtham indexation which are likely to be under consideration just now are unacceptable. But this is not surprising. Despite all the fine words in the Smith report, what Scotland is actually being invited to take part in is the great Smith handicap race. We will hobble you by denying you the most important economic powers. Then we will set up a fiscal system where you have to engage in an economic race with the rest of the UK. And if you fail to win in that handicap race, then you will be severely penalised. So much for the famous vow.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm actually hoping, probably in vain I know... that the Scotland Bill as it is, will be presented, debated in Holyrood... then put to the Scottish people to vote on. It's us that have to live with it and it's consequences after all. And it's SO obvious that's it's not what people were hoping for after the referendum in terms of real, meaningful powers. I don't think a poison chalice of Scottish Govt's mitigating Westminster cuts for the forseeable future was quite what Gordon Brown had in mind. Or at least, I hope not !



http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/16/time-to-get-ready-for-the-second-biggest-decision-in-300-years/

What exactly were the Scottish People hoping for that they haven't got? The Scottish Parliament has got a huge amount of extra powers with the large subsidy from London intact. It seems to me that you have the best of all worlds, given what you are after.

Most of the perceived virtues of independence without the grinding poverty and utter irrelevance.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm actually hoping, probably in vain I know... that the Scotland Bill as it is, will be presented, debated in Holyrood... then put to the Scottish people to vote on. It's us that have to live with it and it's consequences after all.

That's not the way our parliamentary democracy works. Perhaps Scotland should've voted for independence.😀

Happygreen

Generali wrote: »

What exactly were the Scottish People hoping for that they haven't got? The Scottish Parliament has got a huge amount of extra powers with the large subsidy from London intact. It seems to me that you have the best of all worlds, given what you are after.

Most of the perceived virtues of independence without the grinding poverty and utter irrelevance.

We do not have a government we have elected (where have you been during these discussions ....) or the chance that we get a government we have elected. This time there was some point in going to vote in the GE for decades - but only some point as all the people we voted in don't really make a difference, do they? We are utterly irrelevant to WM.

Tromking

Happygreen wrote: »

We do not have a government we have elected (where have you been during these discussions ....) or the chance that we get a government we have elected. This time there was some point in going to vote in the GE for decades - but only some point as all the people we voted in don't really make a difference, do they? We are utterly irrelevant to WM.

Stop voting parochially for a party that doesn't put up candidates in the rest of the UK then!
You as a voter have as much clout as any voter, and the millions of Scots voters have as much clout as any other group of millions of voters.

Generali

Happygreen wrote: »

We do not have a government we have elected (where have you been during these discussions ....) or the chance that we get a government we have elected. This time there was some point in going to vote in the GE for decades - but only some point as all the people we voted in don't really make a difference, do they? We are utterly irrelevant to WM.

The Scots vote for ~60 seats. They are no more going to be able to decide the Government than Londoners are who return ~70 MPs.

What do you expect? A Scottish veto over the UK Government?

Scotland isn't irrelevant to Westminster, that's rubbish. The fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland is in the Cabinet and thus is in the inner circle of decision making for the UK as a whole as well as for Scotland tells us that.

wotsthat

Happygreen wrote: »

We do not have a government we have elected (where have you been during these discussions ....) or the chance that we get a government we have elected. This time there was some point in going to vote in the GE for decades - but only some point as all the people we voted in don't really make a difference, do they? We are utterly irrelevant to WM.

A referendum took place in September 2014 and Scottish voters decided to stay within the union and maintain existing system to elect people to represent them in WM.

I'm not sure you represent the views of 'we'.

Generali

wotsthat wrote: »

A referendum took place in September 2014 and Scottish voters decided to stay within the union and maintain existing system to elect people to represent them in WM.

I'm not sure you represent the views of 'we'.

And of course you can keep reducing the argument: if Scotland gets independence then perhaps Scotland is voting Labour while Edinburgh is voting SNP so Edinburgh goes it alone. Then Morningside residents are upset because their Tory votes go uncounted and in the end number 43 is angry because the oldest kid next door has turned 16 and can now vote so they are forced to have the Government that next door votes for.

Not everyone can have the Government they vote for.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No me neither. I'm limited with involvement at the moment too.

Tbh I don't do much with the movement myself any more ... I'm more CW and WFI... they did ask to let those two organisations know so that's maybe why they contacted me

I don't see myself getting involved either tbh as Leanne says it should be a while before indy ref 2 and I have enough going on with my current campaigns

elantan

Generali wrote: »

And of course you can keep reducing the argument: if Scotland gets independence then perhaps Scotland is voting Labour while Edinburgh is voting SNP so Edinburgh goes it alone. Then Morningside residents are upset because their Tory votes go uncounted and in the end number 43 is angry because the oldest kid next door has turned 16 and can now vote so they are forced to have the Government that next door votes for.

Not everyone can have the Government they vote for.

There is a difference between the country of Scotland and the council area of Morningside ... just incase you didn't know