Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Numbers. 232 .....+ 56 + Green/Plaid Cymru/SDLP etc etc. Will back Corbyn to the hilt re things like Trident and Anti-Austerity policies. Add in some Tory rebels and Cameron is on very shaky ground.



There will be no deals re indy ref 2 in Westminster with Corbyn. Holyrood is where that particular path lies.The SNP will just back him on whatever is in their own manifesto. A LOT of which there which they agree on. And good grief, that's got to be better than Labour simply abstaining on just about everything as they were before parliament broke up. Blairites have thrown in the towel already accepting the inevitable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34123997

And Cameron is already seeing what lies in store with such a slim majority...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11840493/David-Cameron-backs-down-on-purdah-but-faces-fresh-defeat-over-EU-Referendum-Bill.html

What Labour does next will be key. And if things do go Corbyn's way and he manages to keep Labour together... only to lose in 2020 ? Scotland will leave the union more than likely. But I remain unconvinced 100% Corbyn will lose. Seeing the fire he seems to have lit under this Labour party election. I think he can probably repeat the same in the wider electorate also. Is it sustainable ? Who knows.. but Labour have a LOT of new members thanks only to him. Once they accept the inevitable, it's only a matter of time before individual MP's start waking up to 'being popular' again.

You honestly think that Tory Rebels are going to vote with Corbyn??? You're certifiable:rotfl:

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

You honestly think that Tory Rebels are going to vote with Corbyn??? You're certifiable:rotfl:

No they'll abstain. Duuuuh. Boy reality is going to hit you hard.

Labour's sole Scottish MP, Ian Murray, told voters in Edinburgh South before the election that he, like the SNP, opposes renewal. The Liberal Democrat MP, Alistair Carmichael, opposes like-for-like replacement.

And the unholy alliance is growing day by day. The new leader of the Scottish Labour Party, Kezia Dugdale, has announced that her party conference is to have a free vote on Trident. This may not be unconnected to the fact that unilateralist Jeremy Corbyn could be about to become leader of the UK Labour Party.
Even the UK Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, is increasingly sceptical about Trident,..

So long as both the UK’s main political parties were behind Trident renewal it was just about possible to ignore this. But with the likelihood of a new Labour leader also calling for Trident to be scrapped, this is beginning to look untenable.

It is assumed that Labour would split if Mr Corbyn wins and that the pro-nuclear MPs would all join the Tories or set up on their own. But I'm not so sure about this. Tony Blair might, but he isn't an MP. Okay, Andy Burnham may resign from the front bench. But we might discover that the Parliamentary Labour Party isn't actually very enthusiastic about defending indefensible weapons of mass destruction.

The Government's majority in the Commons is only 12 seats and there are a number of Conservatives such as Crispin Blunt who oppose Trident renewal and have voted against it in the past. He did so on the not unreasonable grounds that £100 billion could be better spent on the ill-equipped British army.
Even the defence chiefs have noticed that Trident is on a shoogly peg, which is why there’s been a sotto voce debate in military circles about possible alternative sites for the system. Devonport near Plymouth is the most obvious. But it's generally agreed that nuclear weapons could not be located there because of – wait for it – safety considerations.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/columnists/13637295.Why_a_one_way_trip_beckons_for_Trident/

And when the Telegraph is reporting that Cameron is heading for his first parliamentary defeat due to... errr Tory rebels. Time to wake up, and smell the coffee a little Generali. If I'm certifiable, then looks like the Torygraph is too.. :cool:

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No they'll abstain. Duuuuh. Boy reality is going to hit you hard.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/columnists/13637295.Why_a_one_way_trip_beckons_for_Trident/

And when the Telegraph is reporting that Cameron is heading for his first parliamentary defeat due to... errr Tory rebels. Time to wake up, and smell the coffee a little Generali. If I'm certifiable, then looks like the Torygraph is too.. :cool:

The Torygraph piece has a headline and article that are at odds with each other. As the piece states, nobody had the time to read the amendment in question let alone decide how to vote.

keep dreaming:rotfl:

skintmacflint

elantan wrote: »

Did you read the wee ginger dug's latest ? had me in tears ... I remember last years blog as if it were yesterday, a long way away but still fresh in my mind
...

I much prefer reading the Ahdinnaeken blog written by longshanker. His blogs on Joan MacAlpine are excellent. The ones he did earlier in the year on Angela Constance, and her failing Education standards, SNP trying to grab the benches in Westminster and Eck the has been , as the new SNP members allocated guardians were hilarious.

kabayiri

I'm still confused as to when this window will open for a second referendum.

To gather support, won't it need to appeal both to Scottish parties (obviously) *but also* Westminster parties?

Labour politicians in Westminster may well ask the WIIFM question.

Labour have a lot of rebuilding in this term; the Tories have a lot to do on the economy front still; and the issue of Europe shows no sign of leaving the headline space.

How do the SNP get a referendum back on the agenda for the next political term? Surely they can't go it alone?

Generali

TBH kabayiri, I don't think that they can. There's no way that Cameron is going to put up a second referendum and it would be impossible to defend the expense and disruption to the people paying for it: the English.

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

TBH kabayiri, I don't think that they can. There's no way that Cameron is going to put up a second referendum and it would be impossible to defend the expense and disruption to the people paying for it: the English.

If the primary political party in Scotland were right of centre, where UKIP sits, then I can see how it would have been much easier.

The whole Europe issue would play into their hands. They could play on the Scottish nationalist sentiment which is obviously important for some.

They could push for lean government much more than the Tories. This would resonate with those concerned at state debt levels.

Maybe the SNP, as a left leaning party, isn't the party to take them forward? (eeks, where did that blue touch paper come from?)

princeofpounds

Maybe the SNP, as a left leaning party, isn't the party to take them forward?

Like many overly statist parties, they aren't the sort of party to take anyone forward really.


Higher tax, higher spend, in an economy that already struggles for competitiveness, is a gently toxic mess.


Like many areas that have lost some of their major industries - simply through the forces of economic globalisation - they seek solace from the teat of public spending rather than reforming.


I suspect if Scotland were to find itself forced to stand on its own feet, it would end up with quite a painful economic adjustment process, and probably the politics would be rather different after that.


Scotland was a centre of right wing capitalist thinking back in the days when it was actually successful. It could be back there within a generation post-independence.

kabayiri

princeofpounds wrote: »

...
Scotland was a centre of right wing capitalist thinking back in the days when it was actually successful. It could be back there within a generation post-independence.

What intrigued me about the Indy narrative was that so much of it seemed to be centred on the here and now.

Everyone seemed to be using smoke and mirrors to suggest that independence would deliver instant prosperity.

Where was the visionary who could point to a lean, determined, country which was small enough to change direction and respond to global change. Who was looking a generation ahead?

SNP politicians don't seem any different to the rest of the mostly dross we have down here. A shame really.

elantan

Generali wrote: »

You'll notice that supporters of normal parties do not speak like this about the leader, I never heard John Major or John Smith described thus. It's just the nutters.

And you seem to forget I ain't SNP ... Silly person

And its no a sexual crush ... It's an intelligence crush silly

Although I was really surprised at how soft his eyes are ... My heart did skip a wee beat when I met him