Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

Chadsman wrote: »

I contacted the SNP about this but they never replied- maybe someone here can.

Why does the SNP want a currency union betwee iScotland and rUK rather than an informal sterlingisation arrangement?

Because by doing so the SNP were minimising the amount of change as a result of a Yes vote. It's the same reason that they said they'd keep the Queen (despite any evidence of which I am aware of actually having asked her) and remain in the EU (despite being told that a newly independent Scotland would have to apply for membership).

Chadsman wrote: »

Would a currency union not mean monetary policy of iScotland would need to be agreed by rUK?

It would mean monetary policy being set by Threadneedle Street. I am not sure why that is better than fiscal policy being set by Westminster.

Chadsman wrote: »

If iScotland is expecting rUK to moderate its own monetary policy according to their needs what is it offering in return?

The three biggest Unionist parties made it clear that an independent Scotland would have no input into English/rUK fiscal policy so the question is moot really. I am not aware of the SNP offering much of anything to the English, the referendum campaign seemed to be more about what they'd be taking from the UK.

zagubov

Chadsman wrote: »

I contacted the SNP about this but they never replied- maybe someone here can.

Why does the SNP want a currency union betwee iScotland and rUK rather than an informal sterlingisation arrangement? Would a currency union not mean monetary policy of iScotland would need to be agreed by rUK?
If iScotland is expecting rUK to moderate its own monetary policy according to their needs what is it offering in return?

What did Belgium get out of its 80+ year currency union with Luxembourg? What does Switzerland get out of its currency union with smaller Leichtenstein? (these aren't retorical questions? I'd honestly like to know).

Generali wrote: »

Because by doing so the SNP were minimising the amount of change as a result of a Yes vote. It's the same reason that they said they'd keep the Queen (despite any evidence of which I am aware of actually having asked her) and remain in the EU (despite being told that a newly independent Scotland would have to apply for membership).

It would mean monetary policy being set by Threadneedle Street. I am not sure why that is better than fiscal policy being set by Westminster.

The three biggest Unionist parties made it clear that an independent Scotland would have no input into English/rUK fiscal policy so the question is moot really. I am not aware of the SNP offering much of anything to the English, the referendum campaign seemed to be more about what they'd be taking from the UK.

For such a one-sided media onslaught against independence, it's strange how silent the media were on the advantages of keeping Scotland in the union. And yet they pushed it relentlessly throughout the campaign.

And let's not over-egg the honesty of the politicians who said there'd be no currency union. Their electoral credibility was unsalvageable after that.

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

What did Belgium get out of its 80+ year currency union with Luxembourg? What does Switzerland get out of its currency union with smaller Leichtenstein? (these aren't retorical questions? I'd honestly like to know).



For such a one-sided media onslaught against independence, it's strange how silent the media were on the advantages of keeping Scotland in the union. And yet they pushed it relentlessly throughout the campaign.

And let's not over-egg the honesty of the politicians who said there'd be no currency union. Their electoral credibility was unsalvageable after that.

You honestly believe that all Unionist politicians lied about the idea that they wouldn't form a currency union with Scotland?

I wonder why the parts of the Labour party that now seem to support Scottish separatism haven't blown the whistle. It could be because somehow the conspiracy was kept within a very large yet silent group or it could be that the conspiracy is a result of the rather fevered imaginations of separatists that are still struggling to come to terms with the comprehensive defeat of their dreams and ideals: it was the BBC, it was a conspiracy, it was the old people.

Never the fact that the majority of Scottish people would rather remain in the Union than live in a country being forced by zealots to go through a terrible and entirely unnecessary austerity program. Londoners seem happy to pay a large subsidy to the rest of the country and the rest of the country, except a relatively small number, seem happy to accept that handout.

If I was living in Scotland, which I believe you don't, I'd be more worried about keeping Londoners onside.

Chadsman

If the SNP really wanted to minimise change they would be in favour of retaining the union.

...and iScotland would have little say over its own monetary policy.

I recall the SNP saying they would allow the UKs nuclear deterrent to continue to be based in Scotland for an unspecified period of transition but that rather contradicts their policy of Scotland being a nuclear weapons free zone.
This assumes rUK would agree to this rather than have them based at USAs Kings Bay... American's can never get enough guns.

Would any supprter of Scottish independence care to explain otherwise?

Chadsman

zagubov wrote: »

What did Belgium get out of its 80+ year currency union with Luxembourg? What does Switzerland get out of its currency union with smaller Leichtenstein? (these aren't retorical questions? I'd honestly like to know).

Not having any links to either I have no idea. Do you know what the benefits are/were?

zagubov wrote: »

And let's not over-egg the honesty of the politicians who said there'd be no currency union. Their electoral credibility was unsalvageable after that.

It has not been proven there would be a currency union.
So what are the benefits of a currency union for iScotland and the benefits of currency union for rUK?

Just supposing a currency union were to be agreed how is the SNP proposing monetary policy take into consideration the needs of iScotland- one seat on the BoE monetary policy committee? What would happen if rUK needed a rate rise but iScotland needed a rate cut?

Generali

Chadsman wrote: »

So what are the benefits of a currency union for iScotland and the benefits of currency union for rUK?

Had Scotland voted for independence, and you are a little late to the party here, the benefits for Scotland would mostly have accrued to the SNP as it would have helped push through independence. Independence is the raison d'etre of the SNP.

It would have made little, if any, difference to the English/UK as Scotland was a small amount of tax take, exports and GDP for the UK as a whole with oil at record highs and is a huge drain on London and the South East at more normal oil prices.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

What did Belgium get out of its 80+ year currency union with Luxembourg? What does Switzerland get out of its currency union with smaller Leichtenstein? (these aren't retorical questions? I'd honestly like to know).



For such a one-sided media onslaught against independence, it's strange how silent the media were on the advantages of keeping Scotland in the union. And yet they pushed it relentlessly throughout the campaign.

And let's not over-egg the honesty of the politicians who said there'd be no currency union. Their electoral credibility was unsalvageable after that.

what do you think a currency union is?

how does that differ from iscotland simply using the pound (or the euro or the dollar)?

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

You honestly believe that all Unionist politicians lied about the idea that they wouldn't form a currency union with Scotland?

I believe virtually all politicians lie as and when they see fit, with that identikit clump of party leaders being particularly good at it.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Had Scotland voted for independence, and you are a little late to the party here, the benefits for Scotland would mostly have accrued to the SNP as it would have helped push through independence. Independence is the raison d'etre of the SNP.

It would have made little, if any, difference to the English/UK as Scotland was a small amount of tax take, exports and GDP for the UK as a whole with oil at record highs and is a huge drain on London and the South East at more normal oil prices.

"Of course there would be a currency union," the minister told the Guardian in remarks that will serve as a major boost to the Scottish first minister, Alex Salmond, who accused the UK's three main political parties of "bluff, bluster and bullying" after they all rejected a currency union.
The minister, who would play a central role in the negotiations over the breakup of the UK if there were a yes vote,

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/28/independent-scotland-may-keep-pound

And if there hadn't been one, Scotland would've walked away debt free. Have some Wings too and what was said (at the time).. * lights touchpaper*

If Scotland votes Yes in September, the UK will lose almost 10% of its GDP overnight. Not just for a year, but forever. Billions of pounds a year in oil revenues, billions of pounds from whisky exports, billions more from other industries like tourism and videogames – all areas, crucially, in which large sums of money enter the UK economy from overseas, boosting the UK’s balance of payments.

If the UK refused a currency union, Scotland would have no reason whatsoever to take on any of the UK’s debt, and the UK would have to face the same crippling debt mountain that’s causing the horrific austerity now, but with its economy hacked off at the ankles. If the current nightmare came from a brief single-digit recession, you don’t have to be an economist to imagine the apocalyptic effect of a permanent 10% one....


....The combined effect of the broader deficit and the balance of payments one would inevitably be a further downgrading of the UK’s credit rating, leading to increased borrowing costs and a vicious economic spiral. It would, in short, be a catastrophe that would make the 2007-09 recession look like a picnic....


Superficially, an independent Scotland would be a big winner from rejecting the UK’s debt in retaliation for being refused a share of Sterling. It would almost certainly have to pay higher rates for borrowing than the UK does now, but without UK debt repayments it would barely need any borrowing, and so would be easily able to afford slightly higher interest on it....
....The only problem for Scotland, and the reason the Scottish Government doesn’t just openly come out and say “We will absolutely not accept a penny of UK debt without a currency union” (although it hints pretty strongly at it), is that with the rUK being by far Scotland’s biggest trading partner, if the rUK economy went down the toilet it would drag Scotland with it.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-there-will-be-a-currency-union/

Gosh this all seems so long ago already ! At least the next time round, if there is one, the Pro-indy side will have learnt well from their mistakes I hope. Most arguments for and against the EU will have already been done to death, but over the UK as a whole. And imo, they'll just go for a separate currency and be damned. You're right that the currency union thing was the 'least worst' option. In terms of campaigning anyway.

But for the Queen, and 'not asking her' ? You do realise Mary Queen of Scots son, and James VI, or I ( depending on Scotland or England ) was the reason for the Union of the Crowns in the first place right ? :cool:

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

zagubov wrote: »

I believe virtually all politicians lie as and when they see fit, with that identikit clump of party leaders being particularly good at it.

I'd agree with that...

"This is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland."

~ Alex Salmond

"The SNP have always said, these votes are a once in a generation event, this is a once in a generation, a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland"

~ Nicola Sturgeon

Now it seems they can't wait to find an excuse to break those promises....