Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

The SNP had their chance and they blew it: a weak UK Government and oil at record prices flattering the putative Scottish state's finances and they couldn't get it through.

Scotland will never be independent in my lifetime. As the oil runs out or simply becomes uneconomic to drill, the appetite for independence will dwindle. The SNP will be reduced to a risible hard left party, looking for ever increasing handouts from the hated oppressor while shouting about how Scotland must be allowed the one thing that would destroy the SNP.

Ah yes, the SNP 'had their chance. The ref was lost. However, for once I sort of agree with Gordon Brown. The man that 'saved the union' is all over the papers today saying.. That the end of the Union won't come directly from the SNP. It'll be events in England, the Labour party and Westminster..

Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he believes the next 12 months could determine the long-term fate of the union between England and Scotland.
Mr Brown said the union was in "mortal danger" unless the UK government considered modifying their plans for English Votes for English Laws.
The Conservatives should also change their position on welfare top-up powers for the Scottish parliament, he said.
The UK government said it wanted to bring the "whole country together".
Mr Brown, speaking at the Edinburgh International Book Festival, said he did not believe the break-up of the UK was inevitable, but feared the damage already done could be "irreversible"..."Now, almost a year on from the referendum we can detect three potentially fatal flaws in the Conservative government's approach to Scotland and the Union," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34103122

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Gordon thinks the Tories will do it, not the SNP. He's probably more right than wrong. The SNP are just sitting back and enjoying the show right now.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But there's only so many times one can listen to the same story. People switched off long ago re oil.

Then you miss my point entirely. You as a voter can switch off. No issue with that. Those with the problem to resolve cannot. That's the inherent danger when fanaticism blinkers one from reality. Expecting the "Messiah" to produce a miracle is going to leave many deeply disappointed. Which then will disengage people for another generation.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I'd say the Scottish people made a calculated decision that they would be better off by staying in the Union.

They have been proven right too. What's the phrase ? Canny Scots!

It's not just the collapse in oil price.

The UK government has had to pump financial support into the Scottish oil industry in several forms. That would have been tricky for an independent newly formed country to raise the required resources.

For someone who say's it's 'not all about oil'.. you sure talk a lot about oil. It's almost as if.. you can't actually think of any other reason Scotland couldn't be independent apart from the.. well, the oil price ? There's gas as well..

There were many, many more factors to be taken into account both in voting No, and Yes. Yourself and Gen are almost pathologically tunnel-visioned on this one. It's very odd. Almost as if there are no other independent countries in the world ever without oil/gas or something. Which is patent nonsense.

Anyway, if there is independence, it's rUK that will have to get used to, very quickly, an economy without oil, not Scotland. Am sure everyone will do just fine though after a period of adjustment. As Gen says, once oil runs out, everyone, not just Scots will have to get on with it. I see Osborne is really pessimistic today..

31 Aug 2015

The North Sea's biggest gas field discovery in a decade has been approved for production by Britain's oil and gas authority, paving the way for a £3bn investment from Danish giant Maersk that could supply 5pc of UK consumption...

...."Despite challenging times, this government has backed the oil and gas industry at every turn, introducing a vital package of support to help it to protect and create jobs," Mr Osborne said.

"Today’s announcement sends a clear signal that the North Sea is open for business."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11834680/Biggest-North-Sea-gas-discovery-in-a-decade-approved.html

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There were many, many more factors to be taken into account both in voting No, and Yes. Yourself and Gen are almost pathologically tunnel-visioned on this one. It's very odd. Almost as if there are no other independent countries in the world ever without oil/gas or something. Which is patent nonsense.

Only children have a trait of stocking their fingers in their ears and humming. While people (attempt to) talk sense to them.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Only children have a trait of stocking their fingers in their ears and humming. While people (attempt to) talk sense to them.

I made comment about the UK government supporting Scottish needs, and Shakey confirms this by showing government support for gas development.

I'm glad she can see how this Union thing is actually working!

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then you miss my point entirely. You as a voter can switch off. No issue with that. Those with the problem to resolve cannot. That's the inherent danger when fanaticism blinkers one from reality. Expecting the "Messiah" to produce a miracle is going to leave many deeply disappointed. Which then will disengage people for another generation.

The media in Scotland has completely lost touch with the Scottish electorate. Over half ( 52% ) according to the BBC's own report.. don't trust the BBC anymore and don't feel it reflects their own views, lives and issues.

That's not fanaticism blinkers.. that's a media that has no idea what it's doing any more and has completely lost it's way. Hence the plummeting newspaper sales etc a few posts back. When over half the population aren't liking what they see and read, that can't be put down to mere fanatics and blinkers. People are absolutely fed up with the same tired old stories being recycled about the SNP/oil prices/dangers of independence ( you can see it being played out once again with Corbyn, it's exactly the same stories.. 'national security', 'will bring economic meltdown' with his policies etc etc )..

No-one is expecting a 'Messiah'.. but both sides of the story occasionally would be nice. That way people get to make up their own minds over what 'matters' and what needs 'resolved'. For the moment though, Scotland is force fed a diet of straight up old style Labour unionism and how bad the SNP is at everything. Despite the SNP being in government for the last 8 years, and Labour losing 40 MP's a few months ago ? When it comes to 'issues' it's as if the last 8 years hasn't happened up here I'm afraid.

The electorate moved on quite some time ago ( hence the popularity of pro-independence blogs which in an ideal world, would NEVER have gotten so huge or anywhere near so influential if there was a bit of balance to be had mainstream ).. the Scottish media however, is still stuck in 2007 when Labour were in charge. I do confess, that I rarely watch any Scottish news programs myself these days either. I know what they're going to say before they say it. I'm just plain bored with hearing how bad the SNP are. Not blinkered.

I'm far more interested in what the other parties are going to do and how they propose to resolve things to be honest. But alas, that's never on the news either. So I switch off along with the rest of that 52%... and that includes all the 'OMG oil disaster' stories.

Scotland needs to move away from oil and diversify. We get it. Oil is volatile. Can't rely on it, etc etc. Yes we know ! The only thing up for discussion imo re oil is whether reducing Scotland's 'dependency' on oil revenues would be better done inside the union, or outside of it.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I made comment about the UK government supporting Scottish needs, and Shakey confirms this by showing government support for gas development.

I'm glad she can see how this Union thing is actually working!

Right, so in an independent Scotland, the Government wouldn't help the oil industry ? Dear me.. Osborne near crippled it with his tax hikes a few years back.. And 'Scottish needs' ? The revenues go elsewhere. Why is UK government support for gas development a 'Scottish need' ?

Funny how oil and gas is beneficial to Scotland only when it suits.. Osborne won't be letting go of that cash cow in a hurry.

But you were right earlier over Trident. There's a bit of a row going to blow up over that. SNP AND Corbyn are against renewal. And they're already wheeling out the SNP/Labour 'unholy alliance' thing only a few months after the election. That soooo not good for union relations. The SNP did very well out of that narrative in May. They've had worse days. :cool:

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Only children have a trait of stocking their fingers in their ears and humming. While people (attempt to) talk sense to them.

No, that's the wrong way round. We've been hearing the 'sense' for years. But it's not reflecting reality. The sense would be Labour still in Holyrood and 59 Labour MP's in Westminster. The SNP one or two MP's and a few MSP's. No referendum and independence a distant, vague aim..

Things aren't quite adding up there with who exactly is putting fingers in ears. Unless you're calling half the Scottish electorate children ? Surely not ? Because that would be just plain insulting to many well informed intelligent Scots voters, and am sure that's not how you want to come across at all...

baldelectrician

Shakethedisease wrote: »

But you were right earlier over Trident. There's a bit of a row going to blow up over that. SNP AND Corbyn are against renewal. And they're already wheeling out the SNP/Labour 'unholy alliance' thing only a few months after the election. That soooo not good for union relations. The SNP did very well out of that narrative in May. They've had worse days. :cool:

I forsee a new issue regarding Trident and Labour
The new deputy Scottish Labour leader has floated the idea of a referendum on Trident (remember Scotland can hold a non-binding 'consultative' referenfum on what it feels like)
This will go one of 2 ways;
There will be a referendum by the Scottish Parliament on Trident and Labour will either abstain (thier new hobby) or vote for it
If this happens the SNP will vote for it and there will be one major rejection of Trident up here.

This will be before a Westminster bill on renewal and will put the cat amongst the pigeons- it WM votes it through in spite of Scotland the Scots can say- we didnt want it so we are not paying for removal.

If Labour in Scotland don't grasp the nettle they are definatley dead in the water.

Generali

Good to see the one person rapid rebuttal unit is still in operation and working as hard as ever.