Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

The one where the SNP shoiuld somehow trump the British Government on British matters.

Scotland was offered independence and rejected it. The result is that the British Government makes some laws that impact on Scotland. If you don't like it, leave....oh but the majority of Scots don't want that so the SNP are stuck with their temper tantrums instead.

zagubov

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I asked you a very direct question. Scottish citizens are EU citizens and what mechanism would be used to strip 5 million of that citizenship if Scotland were to vote for independence. You didn't answer me.

Please don't accuse me of deflection, when you yourself can't answer a direct question put to you. And we both know that the reason you can't answer it, is because you don't know.

Seeing as how the Greenlanders left the EU as their country gained more autonomy from but took years to negotiate it, and still retained their EU citizenship, and the North Cypriots are regarded as citizens, the delusion Scotland would be outside if the UK split was one of the most bizarre claims of the project fear brigade.

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

Seeing as how the Greenlanders left the EU as their country gained more autonomy from but took years to negotiate it, and still retained their EU citizenship, and the North Cypriots are regarded as citizens, the delusion Scotland would be outside if the UK split was one of the most bizarre claims of the project fear brigade.

You mean the wild claim of the head of the European Commission?

Clearly delusional. Or just has an understanding of how the EU works.

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

You mean the wild claim of the head of the European Commission?

Clearly delusional. Or just has an understanding of how the EU works.

No need to fish for excuses, you were right first time.;)

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

No need to fish for excuses, you were right first time.;)

LOL. The Head of the European Commission doesn't understand how the EU works.

I love extremists. They're always good for a laugh.

Even the SNP said that Scotland wouldn't automatically join the EU!

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2013/11/9348/10

The Scottish Government has proposed an 18-month period between the referendum and independence, which we believe is realistic for the terms of Scotland's independent membership of the EU to be agreed and all the necessary processes completed. It also provides sufficient time for the Scottish Government to undertake the necessary legal and institutional preparations for independent EU membership.

Keep 'em coming. I enjoy a bit of historical revisionism on a winter's morning.

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

She's quite correct. Labour did a report on it. I linked to it somewhere here a few times, showing that there had been about 10 truly English only laws that didn't affect the other 3 devolved countries passed in the last 10 years.

But as long as you're happy that government representatives are going to pass laws that will affect Scottish finances re Health, Education and other budgets. All without having a say via your own MP, nor them having a say either. And are looking forward to the fact that no Scottish MP of whatever political party will ever reach high office in Westminster ever again... Then who am I to argue with someone who's so blinded by SNP success and their resentment of it.. that common sense seems to have been dispatched somewhere along the way. I can only assume that you don't need to take advantage of the Scottish Education system, or the NHS, and thus are quite happy for other MP's who don't represent you, to be voting on issues that affect their budgets.

So if there's just 10 English only laws, what are you complaining about.?

As for our MPs not getting a say, they're getting the exact same say if not more than any other MP's in opposition. Well as long as they adhere to SNP central script That is. But don't let that get in the way of you complaining.

As a No voter last year, if the decision had been Yes, by a single vote, I'd have been pretty disappointed, but would have done my best to work with it. There wasn't an 'Everyone deserves a 2nd chance ' Salmond/ Sturgeon option for me. As for resentment, my goodness, time you took a long hard look at the content of your posts.

I've had need of our NHS over the years, spent some time in hospital just last year, and standards have deteriorated over the last decade. The latest wheeze in our hospitals is repeat consultant outpatient appointments being scheduled on time , then promptly cancelled and rescheduled for 3 to 6 months later , so that targets for new cases being seen are met.

Considering SNP have been in full control for the past 8 years, it's reasonable to lay this problem at their door. Unless you vote SNP it seems, then it's Westminster's. Perhaps if SNP spent their budgetary funds for the NHS instead of underspending or diverting them to support some of their populist vote winning policies , my experience wouldn't have been so disappointing. Same with Education.

But never mind they can always string their supporters along for another while by commissioning yet another expert group working group paper. While continuing with the same old. It's got them this far after all.

elantan

Have a good holiday Shake

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote:

.string. wrote:

As usual, you try deflection unless, perish the thought, you are just peddling the SNP line invented to misleads Scots. Or maybe it's just simple minded blather.

Shakey - It's about Scotland not being the EU because it's not a country, not whether individuals are. How difficult is that to understand?

In your Natland, those Scots who were British would, by virtue of that retain EU citizenship but that would not apply to children born in an independent Natland, all that dependent on any UK largess which remained after the SNP had totally pi**ed off the rUK.

But Natland not, that has always been answered by the EU executive.

I asked you a very direct question. Scottish citizens are EU citizens and what mechanism would be used to strip 5 million of that citizenship if Scotland were to vote for independence. You didn't answer me.

Please don't accuse me of deflection, when you yourself can't answer a direct question put to you. And we both know that the reason you can't answer it, is because you don't know.

I repeat, the issue was about Scotland's membership of the EU, not about an individual's citizenship. As usual you deflect the discussion from a subject where you can't defend the SNP viewpoint to one where you fancy you can.

But to humour you, I did actually answer your question, albeit tersely: Scots would retain their EU citizenship by virtue of UK largess, with some exceptions for new generations.

Scots of an independent Natland would retain EU citizenship because, and only because, they were British citizens (if that is the rUK saw fit to apply the current citizenship laws).

To put it more exactly, "The principle is very simple; whoever is a citizen of a member-state is a citizen of the EU, and correlatively no one who is not a citizen of a non-EU member-state can be a EU citizen."

Hence the inescapable link with the UK.

There are also some Wikipedia sites that give some information as no doubt you know well. E.g. here

How that citizenship translates into functionality (i.e. what practical entitlements result) will deepend on the way individual member-states deal with it. For example the current right to emergency medical treatment, which may or may not be supported by the countries concerned.


But in any case it all depends on the continued inclusiveness of what it means to be British, not what it means to be a Scottish Nationalist. Luckily for the SNP parasitic tendencies England is not so parochial as the SNP mind-meld: unless, as I wrote, the rUK really gets terminally p***ed off with SNP mendacity.



In the meantime Scotland would have to apply for membership, no doubt with eventual success, embracing the Euro with enthusiasm and when such blemishes as reneging on debts are no longer around.

kabayiri

I wonder if the LibDems had a similar heightened expectation of achieving things when they entered the coallition.

Arguably, they were in a stronger position than the SNP 56.

It mattered nought. They seemed to pick up a lot of the blame for the coallition problems.

The Tories are good at dumping blame on others. Learn this lesson well all ye SNP politicians

Mistermeaner

accepting that the SNP don't want the bedroom tax, but as the democratic processes to date mean that they have the lump it (i.e. scots voted to be part of UK, UK voted for a conservative majority) cant hey not find a way to nett the effect of it in some other way.

I.e. the bedroom tax must still be applied, but then could they not have under local council powers or similar a special 'nett off' payment back to the individuals effected via some means - e.g. deductionm in council tax, special payment, brown paper bag etc.?

Of course they would have to find a way to fund this, both the payments themselves and the administration but if this is what the scottish people want then thats what they should do. Of course it would mean a deduction in expenditure elsewhere or a special tax levy applicable in scotland only to pay for it.