Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

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Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's citizens are members. There is no quick mechanism to strip that away. Unless you can tell me how that can happen the day after an independence vote ? Strip 5 million EU citizens of their EU citizenship overnight... by which method would the EU do so ?

If you don't know then I think it's safe to simply ignore you on this one.

As usual, you try deflection unless, perish the thought, you are just peddling the SNP line invented to misleads Scots. Or maybe it's just simple minded blather.

Shakey - It's about Scotland not being the EU because it's not a country, not whether individuals are. How difficult is that to understand?

In your Natland, those Scots who were British would, by virtue of that retain EU citizenship but that would not apply to children born in an independent Natland, all that dependent on any UK largess which remained after the SNP had totally pi**ed off the rUK.

But Natland not, that has always been answered by the EU executive.

kabayiri

elantan wrote: »

David Mundel was saying today the vow has been delivered and we need o continue pooling and sharing, yes I know that's a crook of crap, however, many people still believe the MSM an will believe it has been, I know 56 is no match for the rest of the UK so tell me shake what good are they really? They can't deliver any real change for Scotland, I know they want to, I know they are better than the alternative but last night Scotland lost and we better get used to it, cause it's just gonna get worse and quite frankly hell slap it Into us as it's what the majority want

Your most natural ally for independence is staring you right in the face and yet you can't see it!

If you encourage a potentially mainstream UK party to campaign on English independence, and they gain traction, then your independence case is strengthened.

UKIP or some other right of centre party is the answer.

Nationalists north and south of the border have common interest!

Rinoa

ohmochraich wrote: »

Or the 56 SNP MPs could just argue against the weak, wishy washy, watered down Scotland bill, try to pass amendments ( that they know won't be allowed to pass because of the sheer volume of numbers) and allow the Tories, lib Dems and labour MPs to hoist themselves by their own stupidity and wait until they all get shown the door in next years Holyrood elections. I would think that if they increase their vote next year, on top of the 56 MPs the Scottish Public sent to Westminster and are STILL ignored and overruled - there is only one way that will end - collision course!.

No matter what way you vote - the fact that EVEL is being shouted from the rooftops - (when the SNP are the only party NOT to vote on English only matters), while at the same time, a bill which is supposed to be aiming to deliver more powers to the Scottish parliament is having any ability for any benefits to Scotland removed because ALL amendments are being overruled by NON Scottish MPS ( who haven't even had the decency to attend the debate and who just turned up to vote NO without even hearing what the amendments are!) is an utter, utter disgrace and sadly evidence writ large of the contempt in which the Scottish nation is held by Westminster!.
Whether or not it's obvious yet - this 'Union' benefits England more than Scotland and the SNP don't need to do anything to fuel the demand for independence because the unionist parties in Westminster are doing all the hard work for them by being arrogant gits who are showing utter contempt for Scotland!

Maybe it would help if the SNP would admit to how they will use these new powers. They seem very reluctant to do so.

elantan

ohmochraich wrote: »

Or the 56 SNP MPs could just argue against the weak, wishy washy, watered down Scotland bill, try to pass amendments ( that they know won't be allowed to pass because of the sheer volume of numbers) and allow the Tories, lib Dems and labour MPs to hoist themselves by their own stupidity and wait until they all get shown the door in next years Holyrood elections. I would think that if they increase their vote next year, on top of the 56 MPs the Scottish Public sent to Westminster and are STILL ignored and overruled - there is only one way that will end - collision course!. J

No matter what way you vote - the fact that EVEL is being shouted from the rooftops - (when the SNP are the only party NOT to vote on English only matters), while at the same time, a bill which is supposed to be aiming to deliver more powers to the Scottish parliament is having any ability for any benefits to Scotland removed because ALL amendments are being overruled by NON Scottish MPS ( who haven't even had the decency to attend the debate and who just turned up to vote NO without even hearing what the amendments are!) is an utter, utter disgrace and sadly evidence writ large of the contempt in which the Scottish nation is held by Westminster!.
Whether or not it's obvious yet - this 'Union' benefits England more than Scotland and the SNP don't need to do anything to fuel the demand for independence because the unionist parties in Westminster are doing all the hard work for them by being arrogant gits who are showing utter contempt for Scotland!

You are bang on the money there, there are a LOT of angry Scots just now, we just need to make sure HR turns yellow and green next year ànd both but a referendum on their manifesto, if Cameron denies it then I believe he will regret itb

elantan

kabayiri wrote: »

Your most natural ally for independence is staring you right in the face and yet you can't see it!

If you encourage a potentially mainstream UK party to campaign on English independence, and they gain traction, then your independence case is strengthened.

UKIP or some other right of centre party is the answer.

Nationalists north and south of the border have common interest!

If England choose to go independent then I believe that is a choice for those living there to decide upon and campaign for, I don't feel as a citizen of Scotland I have the right to tell those living elsewhere to go for it ( even if I think it's a good idea)

Tromking

elantan wrote: »

You are bang on the money there, there are a LOT of angry Scots just now, we just need to make sure HR turns yellow and green next year ànd both but a referendum on their manifesto, if Cameron denies it then I believe he will regret itb

What about the millions of Scots Unionists who have a quite reasonable expectation that the question had been put to bed for a generation?
Cameron and Sturgeon both have a duty to govern for all of the Scottish people not just the SNP voter who would be happy to have an indyref every year until they got the result they wanted.

elantan

I don't think there are millions of them any more, a lot of unionists are unhappy just now ... Not all obviously, but people!e I have previously spoke to that were staunch dyed in the wook unionists were not happy last time we spoke ....

Thats what you need to be aware of, yes some unionists are happy and would happily see the end if HR but some people I have spoken to that I never would've ever believed would ever be anti union are now disgusted with the way things are happening and believe they have been lied to

Tromking

Even if we assume that circa 60% of Scots now want independence (which I doubt!) what about the other 40%?
I'm not sure it's reasonable to put them the through the ordeal of another indyref within 5-10 years of a sizeable NO vote.
Democracy in Scotland isn't just for Nationalists.

elantan

Is it then OK to expect that 60% not to want an independence referendum after they believe they have been misled and lied to ?

elantan

Many are screaming for another Indy ref and I believe the SNP will have to come up with something soon if it wants to a) keep control and B ) doesn't want a huge backlash

From what I see online, in work today and whilst out and about people are livid ...