Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

It wouldn't be FFA as NIcola will reject it on some faux grounds as she knows that FFA before independence, will destroy the SNP and send them into the wilderness for 100 years.

It won't be FFA unless control of ALL revenues and taxes raised in Scotland are handed over. I doubt Cameron will offer anything like it.

However Nicola has several things on her side (although she needs to remember that the lies she tells the Scots shouldn't be repeated down south),

-firstly Cameron doesn't want to be the PM who lost Scotland and the union as will compromise (that mean give scots unfair financial advantage
-secondly there are enough Tory 'Scottish' fellow traveller MPs to vote against making the Scottish settlement fair to all the people of the union: as Labour will support the unfair Scottish settlement then Cameron wouldn't be able to enforce a fair settlement

so Scotland will be spared financial meltdown a second time in only a 12 months or so.

Of course the great danger is that idiots like the Mhairi will probably fight for socialist purity at the expense of the people of scotland.

we will see

but you have my continuing support for a new referendum and any help I can give : just call me

Again FFA would take a while to implement. There are also possible consequences for NI and Wales. Someone tweeted earlier that the SDLP are also making noises that if FFA is offered to Scotland, and Barnett gone.. then all bets are off re NI ( whatever that means ? ).

So no, imo Cameron won't offer anything like FFA. But he will try and pass it off such. The SNP would be far better sitting back for a while and letting the full horror of the next Tory govt in the way of cuts/ human rights scrapped ( there will be a row over that as it's doubtful devolved parliaments can be forced to do so also )/welfare reforms ( especially for the disabled )/Trident and things like the EU referendum sink in.

No need to rush into anything. But I'll be sure to give you that call mabye in a few years time.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It won't be FFA unless control of ALL revenues and taxes raised in Scotland are handed over. I doubt Cameron will offer anything like it.



Again FFA would take a while to implement. There are also possible consequences for NI and Wales. Someone tweeted earlier that the SDLP are also making noises that if FFA is offered to Scotland, and Barnett gone.. then all bets are off re NI ( whatever that means ? ).

So no, imo Cameron won't offer anything like FFA. But he will try and pass it off such. The SNP would be far better sitting back for a while and letting the full horror of the next Tory govt in the way of cuts/ human rights scrapped ( there will be a row over that as it's doubtful devolved parliaments can be forced to do so also )/welfare reforms ( especially for the disabled )/Trident and things like the EU referendum sink in.

No need to rush into anything. But I'll be sure to give you that call mabye in a few years time.

Only in SNP speak is continuing to borrow for the next 5 years the 'full' horrors of cuts.

Scotland chooses to subsidise the richer proportion of their people so they have a lot of spare money to shift to the poor if they choose (they won't because politics is much more important that welfare of the people).

Let's remember, the aim is independence and not a honest allocation of Scottish resources to the poorer sections of her society.

Lets also remember that a Scottish 'fairer and more equal' society means the highest paid elected office in the UK, a Sturgeon family income in excess of £200,000, lots of SNP politicians having taken advantage of Thatcherite 'right to buy' etc;
but never forget that independence is the aim so a genuine FFA has to be rejected by Nicola as it will smash the SNP and any hope of independence.

But you are already on message, preparing the way with the nonsense like 'ALL the revenues and taxes' and outrageous suggestions that referendum are unScottish : well done ; if I get any ideas that might help I will pass them on to you.

Maybe we could have a joint EU and Scottish independence referendum in 2017?

zappster

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You're about 30 years out of date with this. Sectarianism, apart from when it comes under the guise of football.. is just about dead in Scotland. Even the Orange walks you barely see anyone under 50 on them these days. Unless they're ferried over from Ireland for the 'biggies' in July.

As for faith schools. Out of about 2569 schools in Scotland, there are 370 faith schools. 366 of which are Catholic. Most of which welcome pupils from other faiths and backgrounds. Muslims in Scotland also attend Catholic schools. There is no big impact. Even then, most will go on to a non-denominational secondary school after primary school.

I live in the West of Scotland. Sectarianism is dying off. And you are vastly overegging the pudding on this issue imo.

I've observed many Orange Walks over the years. Those walking might be older and sincere in their beliefs, but the hangers on are as youthful and bigoted as ever. Two kids fighting at my gate the other week, fighting because one called the other a "proddy dog". Sectarianism dying off ? Hope springs eternal.

To the issue, we've got two primary schools within walking distance, one RC and one "state", both in a grim state of repair. Rather than segregating our kids on the (often not observed) religious traditions of their parents, wouldn't it be better for Scottish society and more advantageous to the taxpayer to have one well maintained modern school ?

Surely that's the better way ?

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

Only in SNP speak is continuing to borrow for the next 5 years the 'full' horrors of cuts.

Scotland chooses to subsidise the richer proportion of their people so they have a lot of spare money to shift to the poor if they choose (they won't because politics is much more important that welfare of the people).

Let's remember, the aim is independence and not a honest allocation of Scottish resources to the poorer sections of her society.

Lets also remember that a Scottish 'fairer and more equal' society means the highest paid elected office in the UK, a Sturgeon family income in excess of £200,000, lots of SNP politicians having taken advantage of Thatcherite 'right to buy' etc;
but never forget that independence is the aim so a genuine FFA has to be rejected by Nicola as it will smash the SNP and any hope of independence.

But you are already on message, preparing the way with the nonsense like 'ALL the revenues and taxes' and outrageous suggestions that referendum are unScottish : well done ; if I get any ideas that might help I will pass them on to you.

Maybe we could have a joint EU and Scottish independence referendum in 2017?

Devo-Max and (Full)FA are ALL revenues and taxes. What did you think they were ?

Again, I don't think it will be offered but we'll see. For the moment it seems that the SNP will be pushing for powers over welfare and a few other things for starters.

"What we will argue for is priority devolution of powers over business taxes, employment, the minimum wage, welfare, because these are the levers we need to grow our economy faster; to get more people into work paying taxes and lifting people out of poverty."

Speaking later on the BBC's Sunday Politics Scotland programme, Ms Sturgeon's deputy Stewart Hosie backed her view that powers over business taxes and welfare should be devolved as quickly as possible.
He said this could be done in advance of full fiscal autonomy which would "take years" to implement.

"We laid out the priority powers on job creation and welfare as quickly as we can, and if we can do that in advance of everything else being delivered, then good and well, it allows the Scottish Government to get to work more quickly on creating jobs, tackling inequality, and thereafter the other powers will follow," Mr Hosie said.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sturgeon-general-election-was-not-about-independence-i-want-to-unite-scot.1431255425

Seems clear to me that FFA is an offer only Cameron can make. But that the SNP will be pushing pretty hard very quickly for the above powers asap regardless.

ps Sturgeon didn't take her pay rise which the outgoing Labour administration in Holyrood put in place. Nor did any other MSP in Holyrood. You've been misinformed.

pps I'll take you up on those ideas.

Shakethedisease

zappster wrote: »

I've observed many Orange Walks over the years. Those walking might be older and sincere in their beliefs, but the hangers on are as youthful and bigoted as ever. Two kids fighting at my gate the other week, fighting because one called the other a "proddy dog". Sectarianism dying off ? Hope springs eternal.

To the issue, we've got two primary schools within walking distance, one RC and one "state", both in a grim state of repair. Rather than segregating our kids on the (often not observed) religious traditions of their parents, wouldn't it be better for Scottish society and more advantageous to the taxpayer to have one well maintained modern school ?

Surely that's the better way ?

I've got one at Catholic school at the end of our street. It seems pretty well attended and in good repair. ( in fact that's where we cast our votes on Thursday ).

I don't agree with faith schools at all in principle. So am with you on that. But that's how things are for the moment. The 'proddy' stuff is more a football related thing these days imo. And certainly nothing along the lines of the huge family rift that was caused in my own family when one of my aunts married a Catholic in the mid 70's, and my grandmother didn't speak to her for years.... and even when that blew over all the hushed tones over the fact two of my cousins attended a 'Catholic school'... They went on to the same secondary school as everyone else. And nothing much was ever made of it. Neither are religious.

Thankfully, that sort of thing, based entirely on religious grounds ( not Rangers or Celtic based ), seems to have been consigned firmly to history. And even the football sectarianism seems much less these days than it used to be.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Devo-Max and (Full)FA are ALL revenues and taxes. What did you think they were ?

Again, I don't think it will be offered but we'll see. For the moment it seems that the SNP will be pushing for powers over welfare and a few other things for starters.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sturgeon-general-election-was-not-about-independence-i-want-to-unite-scot.1431255425

Seems clear to me that FFA is an offer only Cameron can make. But that the SNP will be pushing pretty hard very quickly for the above powers asap regardless.

ps Sturgeon didn't take her pay rise which the outgoing Labour administration in Holyrood put in place. Nor did any other MSP in Holyrood. You've been misinformed.

pps I'll take you up on those ideas.

The Nicola and the SNP supported the determination of salary of the Scottish First Minister to be the highest of any elected politician in the UK.
Why did they do that?
The first secretary's index linked generous pension will be based on the nominal salary and not the net amount she takes.
She will benefit directly from the higher First Minister salary.
You have been misinformed about this like so many other issues.

This still means the Sturgeon family income is in excess of 200,000.

Nicola fully supports all those SNP politicians that have taken advantage of Thatcherite policies like 'right to buy' and transfers of money from the poor to the rich.

Obviously I would support the Scottish government having more control over spending there although the money total spent ought to be the same as that in Yorkshire.
Sadly the unfair system has a long way to run.

Anyway what about a joint referendum in 2017 : good idea? (sorry I forgot you don't approve of referendum for the English do you).

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote:

. . . . The SNP would be far better sitting back for a while . . . .
No need to rush into anything. But I'll be sure to give you that call mabye in a few years time. . . .

Shakethedisease wrote: »

. . . the SNP will be pushing pretty hard very quickly for the above powers asap regardless.

Sort of slow slow, quick quick, slow.

Leading the wicked Tories a dance presumably.

A cunning plan!

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Sort of slow slow, quick quick, slow.

Leading the wicked Tories a dance presumably.

A cunning plan!

Push quickly for more modest powers, loudly.... and see if they get them. If they get them great. If they don't even get modest powers through, then make sure the Scots know about it, loudly. Or wait quietly for FFA to be offered, slowly, cranked through the HOC and the HOL at a snails pace.. if at all.

Choices eh.. But one thing most are in agreement with, even top Labour grandee's today. Is that the Smith commission proposals are dead in the water. They're not enough.

Oh and re David Mundell.. Salmond today is calling for the Scottish Office to be abolished. :shhh:

Former First Minister and newly-elected MP Alex Salmond has sensationally called for the Scotland Office to be scrapped.

“Abolish this apology for department, save £7 million a year of Scottish money and start to show some degree of respect to the democratic choice of the Scottish people.”

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-alex-salmond-calls-for-scotland-office-to-be-abolished-in-wake-of-snp-general-election-landslide-1.873866

.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

The Nicola and the SNP supported the determination of salary of the Scottish First Minister to be the highest of any elected politician in the UK.
Why did they do that?
The first secretary's index linked generous pension will be based on the nominal salary and not the net amount she takes.
She will benefit directly from the higher First Minister salary.
You have been misinformed about this like so many other issues.

This still means the Sturgeon family income is in excess of 200,000.

Nicola fully supports all those SNP politicians that have taken advantage of Thatcherite policies like 'right to buy' and transfers of money from the poor to the rich.

Obviously I would support the Scottish government having more control over spending there although the money total spent ought to be the same as that in Yorkshire.
Sadly the unfair system has a long way to run.

Anyway what about a joint referendum in 2017 : good idea? (sorry I forgot you don't approve of referendum for the English do you).

We've already been round the block with Holyrood salaries earlier in the thread. I posted several links for you to read.

And you'll have a referendum on the union in 2017.. the EU one. Isn't that enough for you to be going along with ?

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Push quickly for more modest powers, loudly.... and see if they get them. If they get them great. If they don't even get modest powers through, then make sure the Scots know about it, loudly. Or wait quietly for FFA to be offered, slowly, cranked through the HOC and the HOL at a snails pace.. if at all.

Choices eh.. But one thing most are in agreement with, even top Labour grandee's today. Is that the Smith commission proposals are dead in the water. They're not enough.

Oh and re David Mundell.. Salmond today is calling for the Scottish Office to be abolished. :shhh:

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-alex-salmond-calls-for-scotland-office-to-be-abolished-in-wake-of-snp-general-election-landslide-1.873866

.

You seem to think that the SNP can set the agenda.

Such vanity.