Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

ruggedtoast

The SNP aren't going to be granted another referendum and Scotland still can't afford independence, let alone the chaos of an illegitimate vote. So little meaningful will happen for Scotland now. There could be another independence vote every year til 2020 and they would all still be No. If Scottish residents wanted independence they would have voted for it, but they don't, they just want more Scottishness in Westminster.

I had high hopes for a Milliband Sturgeon coalition but the SNP are out on a limb now. The Tories will ignore them and Labour are scared to be associated with them.

I also have to say I have some doubts about the efficacy of some of these MP's Scot's have saddled themselves with. I presume people who voted for that 20 year old student rather than the Labour guy actually realise that if they need to see their MP in surgery because they have a desperate problem and nowhere else to turn, then that's who they have to go to. Hope she has time to see them after her other important duties marshalling Freshers week and scanning Expedia to see whether her NUS discount on reading week package tours to Ibiza is valid.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

They don't want to play a bigger role. They want a much, much smaller one.

I think this thread has just about played itself out.:cool:

You voted SNP because you want independence. But most of your countrymen who voted SNP don't want independence. How is Sturgeon to reconcile her party's policies so that both they, and you, continue supporting her?

She was quite early in saying she won't press for another referendum, but that wasn't to placate the English, it was to reassure Unionist Scot's who outnumber separatists 3 to 1.

tberry6686

Although I realise I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face I would welcome another independence referendum in Scotland. The result (I strongly suspect) would be close but probably for.

Why would I want one. Purely to remove the smug, self centered grin from the 2 fishes faces when they, for once, have to face up to the reality of spending what you earn and not spending what you can take from your neighbours (add in the death of the SNP for laughs).

The truth is that if Scotland was to go independant then the higher end jobs, money and people would rapidly depart.

Sapphire

tberry6686 wrote: »

Although I realise I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face I would welcome another independence referendum in Scotland. The result (I strongly suspect) would be close but probably for.

The truth is that if Scotland was to go independant then the higher end jobs, money and people would rapidly depart.

I was against it but given the hostility displayed by the SNP (who represent so many Scots) towards the English and the political system of the United Kingdom, I have come round to the same conclusion myself. They would, of course, have to decouple from the United Kingdom in every way, including financially, and would have to have their own currency. Then they could go their own way without the rest of the United Kingdom having to deal with them.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

It would be nice but it's clear that the SNP are after more and more handouts so the title thread is hanging there.

Meanwhile it will interesting to see Sturgeon's ego trip unfold unravel. But don't worry the Vow will be respected (*)


(*) unless, of course, the SNP go back on their agreement with the Smith Proposals, and damage the Scottish all for the sake of their attempts to hide their own failings.

You're way behind the curve with this one. So am leaving it. The Tories will offer more than Smith. But not enough re welfare and taxes to make a huge difference.

skintmacflint

michaels wrote: »

If the scots would rather be independent but poorer then that is there decision to make. I just hope that all those in favour of independence realise that and are not being conned by claims that they could be independent and richer.
.

With a few exceptions the majority of Scots who voted SNP don't want to be poorer. Otherwise they wouldn't have voted for an alleged anti austerity party like SNP.

At the moment in Scotland for SNP supporters, they can do no wrong. For now at least.

But never forget SNP do not represent or speak for the majority in Scotland, despite their numerous attempts to claim that they do.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yep...

Shakey spent absolutely ages denying it too, but the surge in the polls for the SNP pushed many voters in England into voting Tory rather than facing the prospect of a hung parliament with the SNP holding the balance of power and vowing to push Labour too far left.

Scotland now has 5 years of a Conservative majority government.

A situation that would almost certainly have been avoided had the rise of the SNP not spooked England.

The SNP caused the current Tory majority.

And for that I thank them... :beer:

Did you actually vote Labour Hamish ? You were one of the main proponents of tactical voting here ( and I saw you mention it several times in other threads )... I think you did and that's why you've avoided coming out loud and proud about your own Tory vote.

Any 'surges' that pushed English voters into voting Tory were based on 'nationalism' Hamish. And we can't have that can we...

The Conservatives played a very dangerous game during the election by appealing to the worst anti-Scottish sentiments in the UK electorate.

That poster of Alex Salmond in a black turtle-neck picking the wallet out of an English voter's back pocket will remain the abiding image of the 2015 general election campaign.


If anyone is in any doubt about its impact they should view the Guardian journalist, John Harris's, excellent report from the English marginal constituency of Nuneaton. Scots he concluded have become bracketed with benefits scroungers and immigrants as undesirables.


But it is important to remember that this is not England. It is a crude distortion projected though the mirror of a malign UK press and a Conservative party that has lost any sense of what it means to be "one nation".

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/in-the-face-of-anti-scottish-sentiment-stirred-by-the-right-wing-press-and-the-to.125590123

The Tories may have won the election. I sincerely doubt they've won the union. I think they've damaged it immeasurably. And let's not forget.. for all your, and others here, posturing and painting pictures of the SNP and how they will fail for the last few months.

It was posters like myself, Leanne, elantan and a few others that were accurately depicting the correct picture as to SNP support and the sea change going on where we live ( ie 50% of the vote ). Weirdly you alone seem to have missed it somewhere along the line, until it became clear even to you..that only tactical voting might have a chance at stopping it. Well it didn't.

And lets not forget that 'Tory revival' that was predicted in Scotland either..

Gerry Hassan ‏@GerryHassan Scots Tory vote 14.9% lowest in WM p/w history (and lowest since 1865); beating prev low of 15.6% in 2001.

English voters aren't the SNP's concern in terms of winning votes. They don't stand candidates there. So you think they should've not stood candidates in Scotland, just in case the Tories made bogeymen out of them in England ? Mabye they should all have just stood meekly down for that ? You're not making even the faintest bit of sense. Sorry, that's just looney tunes thinking.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/in-the-face-of-anti-scottish-sentiment-stirred-by-the-right-wing-press-and-the-to.125590123

Once again we see the conflation of the SNP and Scotland. The ads were anti-SNP but not anti-Scottish.

No matter how SNP likes to portray things, the SNP isn't Scotland.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You voted SNP because you want independence. But most of your countrymen who voted SNP don't want independence. How is Sturgeon to reconcile her party's policies so that both they, and you, continue supporting her?

She was quite early in saying she won't press for another referendum, but that wasn't to placate the English, it was to reassure Unionist Scot's who outnumber separatists 3 to 1.

No, it wasn't to placate anyone. There's no point holding a referendum until support is about 60% for one. It's hovering about the 50% mark now depending on the polls... but who would believe many of those after Tuesday !

However, someone put it better than I. BetterTogether can't ever be repeated now. And those that believed Scotland was 'safer' in the union, are being quickly divested of the notion. All the BetterTogether scary stuff has rapidly proved false. In some cases just days later.. Labour saying 'Vote No to save the NHS'.. ( Sept 14th ) then a few days later 'Vote Labour to save the NHS'. ( Sept 20th ) We're not completely daft.

Oh and it wasn't 3 to 1.

Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli
The SNP got 93,000 more votes than Labour, the Tories & the Lib Dems put together

We've got the perfect storm. 56 SNP MPs, unable to do much to mitigate the worst excesses of a rampant, cuts-mad Tory government. Cameron was wrong when he said Nicola wanted a Tory government, but the underlying truth that this could be the last straw for the independence waverers who hadn't quite shaken off the notion that Scotland was safer with Westminster looking after it, hasn't gone away.

Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 1 hr 1 hour ago

The SNP won more votes than ANY political party in any previous election in Scotland.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Once again we see the conflation of the SNP and Scotland. The ads were anti-SNP but not anti-Scottish.

No matter how SNP likes to portray things, the SNP isn't Scotland.

Just as the Tories aren't England on a paltry 37% of the vote. Two can play that game bud Many saw those posters as anti-Scottish. And things like 'aJockalypse' wording as such too. From the Tories ( not the English )