Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Leanne1812

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Austerity isn't a choice. It's a necessity. Nor is it an evil.

Easy to say if you don't personally experience it.

elantan

yep Leanne I have noticed it is everyone but the SNP that's banging on about a second referendum .... wonder why... could it be that these people are scared? could it be that maybe they didnt actually win the first time I wonder .... hmmmmmm

[Deleted User]

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Austerity isn't a choice. It's a necessity. Nor is it an evil.

.... although it is possibly fair to say that there is always a choice about how quickly one pays off the debt?

If we all each had a 100k debt, and I could comfortably pay off my 100k in 15 years and have a reasonable lifestyle, or pay it off in 5, that faster pay off might seem like a good idea - after all I'd pay less interest.

However, if the result of me paying it off faster was that my family's health deteriorated, our children lived on beans and water, and we had no clothes, at least that would be my choice.

What would be less acceptable, I think, would be for me to tell the person living next door to me, who had the same debt level but a quarter of my income, that they had to pay their debt off at the same rate as me and the consequences for them and their families was of no concern.

If the better off are more financially able to pay off the debt faster, and suffer less of a cut in their quality of life, fine. Don't however take money of the poor and disabled.

Politics is about choices. If you are already confortable, you have little to fear from cuts. If you are not, you have plenty to fear.

WR

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

It's not ideal is it? A situation outwith the control of your average tax paying UK citizen has left all of us with this debt to pay. I'm incredulous we haven't revolted more and insisted those who caused it are held accountable. The real criminals must be laughing all the way to the bank.........

YOU caused it.

You and everyone else who thought a bloated welfare state was sustainable.

I know the longer we have the debt the more interest we pay but it really strikes me as a better option.

The interest alone is 6 times the entire Scottish NHS budget each year.

So.... Really?

When you say socialist handouts what do you mean? Are people benefitting that don't deserve to?

People are benefitting that we can't afford.

Simple as that.

What is so distasteful about the SNP's proposal to pay it back over a slightly longer period and not cut quite so much? .

The SNP hasn't made that proposal.

They want to extend the number of years we keep borrowing more money, and increase the debt still further.

'Paying it back' hasn't even been mentioned.

johnbhoy10

Wild_Rover wrote: »

.... although it is possibly fair to say that there is always a choice about how quickly one pays off the debt?

If we all each had a 100k debt, and I could comfortably pay off my 100k in 15 years and have a reasonable lifestyle, or pay it off in 5, that faster pay off might seem like a good idea - after all I'd pay less interest.

However, if the result of me paying it off faster was that my family's health deteriorated, our children lived on beans and water, and we had no clothes, at least that would be my choice.

What would be less acceptable, I think, would be for me to tell the person living next door to me, who had the same debt level but a quarter of my income, that they had to pay their debt off at the same rate as me and the consequences for them and their families was of no concern.

If the better off are more financially able to pay off the debt faster, and suffer less of a cut in their quality of life, fine. Don't however take money of the poor and disabled.

Politics is about choices. If you are already confortable, you have little to fear from cuts. If you are not, you have plenty to fear.

WR

Spot on!

Or you can be 'relatively comfortable' and do the 'right thing' by those poor sods at the bottom!

elantan

Ok I am gonna go right against what possibly many of you ( but I dont want to presume) think my beliefs are.... Whilst I am slowly warming to Nicola Sturgeon and I believe that Alex was right to step down ( still my hero though) and that Nicola has achieved things that he couldnt have

I feel ( for me) the SNP is currently far too left wing .... I believe some of the new ( from my understanding ... but not always) ex Labour behaviours are wrong ( mob mentality etc) , I do not completely like the way SNP are currently moving, they are obviously being influenced by ex Labour ( the biggest party in Scotland till recently)

And I do feel as if the SNP are finding their way just now, which is why whilst I will not totally rip into SNP but I will be listening and watching and actively judging

Thrugelmir

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Easy to say if you don't personally experience it.

That's a different conversation. As relates to your personal circumstances rather that macro financial management of the economy.

Thrugelmir

Wild_Rover wrote: »

If we all each had a 100k debt, and I could comfortably pay off my 100k in 15 years and have a reasonable lifestyle, or pay it off in 5, that faster pay off might seem like a good idea - after all I'd pay less interest.

Lets change the scenario to reality. Rather than your over optimistic money grows on trees one. You are not paying off your debt. Your debt is growing. Not only that but there is a very real possibility that the USA will change it's monetary policy in the next 18 months. So your cheap mortgage may not remain low indefinately. The world will move into a different era than the one it's enjoyed for the past 6 years.

Leanne1812

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

YOU caused it.

You and everyone else who thought a bloated welfare state was sustainable.



The interest alone is 6 times the entire Scottish NHS budget each year.

So.... Really?



People are benefitting that we can't afford.

Simple as that.



The SNP hasn't made that proposal.

They want to extend the number of years we keep borrowing more money, and increase the debt still further.

'Paying it back' hasn't even been mentioned.

We differ wildly in how we look at the system. Why is the welfare bill so high? What caused it to reach a level that appears unsustainable? Could a factor be low paid minimum hour jobs that require government top ups? How did we get to a situation where large corporations making tidy profits cannot emply people on a liveable wage? What proportion of welfare is spent on this? We either create jobs that pay people a living wage or continue to subsidise them. This is one area that could save money. Do you agree?

Where do you think the harshest cuts to the welfare budget should be made? Cap on housing benefit? ( I do agree with this policy). How is the welfare bill reduced without causing hardship to those who need it most. I don't know....

I'm pretty sure the SNP have stated the debt will be paid but over a longer period. Haven't the current gov missed targets despite assurances during their last campaign?

Leanne1812

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's a different conversation. As relates to your personal circumstances rather that macro financial management of the economy.

I think it absolutely relates to this situation. It is people's personal lives & standards of living which are affected by cuts & austerity. We cannot talk of austerity without considering the human consequences.