Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

wageslave

Banish, don't tell me you watched them and felt any sense of kinship? It was like watching aliens preparing to eat their own young.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

elantan wrote: »

I know I will be happier when we are independent as well

Only if you equate happiness with poverty.;)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wageslave wrote: »

Banish, don't tell me you watched them and felt any sense of kinship? It was like watching aliens preparing to eat their own young.

:rotfl:

Banish?

Hopefully that's an autocorrect fail.....:D

But seriously, I had a taxi driver in Aberdeen recently tell me that the global oil price fall was a Westminster conspiracy, I've had lectures about the viability of a Scottish state from people that actually believed we were one of the richest countries in the World and had no idea we are heavily subsidised and in debt, and I've met Scottish politicians who I suspect would struggle to spell economics let alone understand the constraints which actually keeping a functioning economy would impose on their socialist spending plans.

A man running a seasonal business with zero hours contracts doesn't even come close to the greed and selfish grasping we are seeing from an entire swathe of the Scottish population with their hands well and truly out.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And chances are, that will be the largest party, which will be the Tories.

It doesn't matter in the slightest if the Tories are the largest party Hamish. If they can't gain support from one or two other parties to take them over the 'line' needed to outnumber those who will vote against them. Then they cannot command the confidence of the house.

That's why the bookies have the Tories odds on to have the largest number of seats. But Ed Milliband to be the next PM. Miliband has far more 'options'. Lib Dem grassroots are not happy about the prospect of another coalition with the Tories either. So the Tories can't even count on them, especially if Clegg steps down, and Danny Alexander loses his seat.

Which means Labour can sit there for 5 years twiddling their thumbs and voting down every piece of legislation until, more than likely, some of their MP's actually start voting through the stuff they agree with for the good of the country.

Or they can team up with the SNP and risk a vote of no confidence to topple the Tories - but that's political suicide for Labour as England would see it as a coup.....

No, even if the Tories have the largest number of seats.. if Labour + SNP + Green + Plaid + SDLP etc outnumber them. Cameron won't be PM. They'll all vote against him. Deals or no deals. Lib Dems may wish to go the way of the SNP on a vote by vote basis whoever is is power.. rather than get entangled for another 5 years with anyone.

Or risk a second election that they don't have the money to fight and would lose in a big way, as the country will have no patience with gridlock at Westminster and likely blame the opposition.

There won't be a second election unless Labour votes itself out of the game re rather than dealing with the SNP. That's what Nicola Sturgeon has been at great pains pointing out for the last few months. And why there was such a fuss over his comments last night. Seemingly indicating he'd 'rather lose than deal with the SNP'. It's in Ed Milibands hands.. He can either accept support for the parties willing to give it to him to get into No 10.. or else his party will have to abstain or vote the Tories in ( to the sound of the last nail in the coffin of Labour in Scotland, and much to the disgust of Labour voters everywhere else too ).

In which case we are going to see a Grand Coalition in all but name....

That is a possibility. But is potentially just as much of a recipe for complete chaos.

Tories will be largest party and form government.

No, they'll have to outnumber every other party willing to vote against them. Even if they are the largest party.

I actually think all this talk of legitimacy and deals, and largest party mantra, isn't for this election. It's all in preparation for a quick second one once a new Tory leader is quickly elected. They already have the war chest ready. And the media is setting things up very nicely indeed starting the calls already re no-one else having the 'right' to form govt if not the largest party, 'coalition of losers', 'SNP not wanted' etc etc

They've certainly been extremely successful at feeding and having you doe-eyed, believing the completely incorrect information re 'the largest party forming the government' already ! Imagine that multiplied by a few million. :eek:

Labour need to be very careful. Miliband isn't doing himself any favours at the moment with his no deals thing. He's playing right into Tory HQ and Murdoch media's hands imo.

This is going to be an interesting week....

On that we agree 100%

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Miliband isn't doing himself any favours at the moment with his no deals thing. He's playing right into Tory HQ and Murdoch media's hands imo.

As are the SNP....

wageslave

I think Miliband played a blinder. He will go for a Queens Speech and dare the SNP to vote down a Labour government. He knows they will be forced to support him or risk annihilation in the 2016 Scottish elections. The most the SNP can realistically hope for is to push Labour a bit more to the left. As long as there is a Labour government they can't, and won't, call for another referendum.
If there is a Conservative government then all votes are off..

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Now let me see if I've got this right.

The SNP Master Plan in the event of the Conservatives coming first in the General Election is to "lock them out of number 10, Downing Street".

Well let's look at that scenario from a different perspective.

Should the SNP MPs vote prevent the Tories forming a new Government, in spite of having more MP's than Labour, SNP will have frustrated the decision of the rest of (primarily) English people and prevented Tory MP's from exercising their legitimate influence in Parliament. .

Another lamb to the slaughter with the 'Tory party getting the most seats means they get to form the government, because anything else wouldn't be legitimate' line.

This is exactly what I meant by the English ( mainly Murdoch led ) media 'preparing the ground' for outrage and angst. The fact that's it's not actually how UK democracy works seems irrelevant.

I don't need to look at it from another perspective. You've been suckered in like a good un. There will be many more like you too.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

As are the SNP....

Murdoch wants the SNP squeezing Labour out in Scotland, and the Tories squeezing them out in England. Well duhhh ! Wake up Hamish..

Shakethedisease

wageslave wrote: »

I think Miliband played a blinder. He will go for a Queens Speech and dare the SNP to vote down a Labour government. He knows they will be forced to support him or risk annihilation in the 2016 Scottish elections. The most the SNP can realistically hope for is to push Labour a bit more to the left. As long as there is a Labour government they can't, and won't, call for another referendum.
If there is a Conservative government then all votes are off..

Someone didn't read the posts..

antrobus

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

As are the SNP....

Indeed. As the latest Private Eye reports "Sturgeon shoes no signs of undoing the tireless work of her predecessor Alex Salmond in developing close ties with the Digger". The 'Dirty Digger' being Rupert Murdoch of course.

It appears that Mr Murdoch is very unhappy about Labour plans to 'do something' about media ownership, and is reassured by the SNP's omission of any similar plans. Hence the Scottish Sun is bigging up the SNP in order to f*** up Labour in Scotland, while the non-Scottish Sun is bigging up the threat of the Tartan Barmy Army in order f*** up Labour in England.:)