Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Goddammit Sturgeon stuck it to Cameron and Millipede last night. Odds Teeth, I wish my county had a sturgeon sticking up for it rather than some craven neo liberal stooge whose only interest is sticking their snout in the Westminster trough.

How do I do an SNP postal vote?

:eek: *faints*

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

Yup, I agree.

The English have never taken to Nationalist parties. The NF was a damp squib as the BNP have been after them. Prior to that Moseley and his blackshirts were widely hated and condemned.

Given that Sinn Fein and the IRA have provided the English with their chief exposure to Irish nationalism, you can see why there'd be some nervousness at celtic nationalism.

Nationalism is a dirty word in England and only really expressed through sport. St George's Day usually passes me by without me noticing it despite the best efforts of the pubs to persuade people to get drunk. There is no English national holiday nor any real desire for one.

The English don't like or want Nationalism and if Labour try to enforce it on them there may well be a significant backlash against it.

Probably because there's a lot of confusion between patriotism and nationalism. There's a difference between loving your country and hating everybody else's.

We all love our spouses but we don't despise everybody else's.

elantan

Aye tbh I think we need a new term for nationalism in Scotland ... It really is far removed from the perceived understanding of what Scottish Nationalists are

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

Probably because there's a lot of confusion between patriotism and nationalism. There's a difference between loving your country and hating everybody else's.

We all love our spouses but we don't despise everybody else's.

That's as may be but if the SNP seek to run The UK as well as Scotland then these are the fears they need to address. From what I've read and seen of the debate Sturgeon gets it.

We can argue the toss about how Scottish Nationalism is somehow different to other sorts but the fact is that if the SNP is going to play a meaningful role in British politics this needs to be understood. Sturgeon gets it. STD is stuck in her fantasy world where 2% of the electorate tells the 98% how it is.

zagubov

elantan wrote: »

Aye tbh I think we need a new term for nationalism in Scotland ... It really is far removed from the perceived understanding of what Scottish Nationalists are

The only reference they make to nationalism is on thier website where they describe themselves as civic nationalists. Anyone seeing the ethnic makeup of the SNP would see it's nothing like UKIP/BNP.

A lot of the electorate south of the Tweed seem to conflate the term nationalist with ethnic supremacist. Civic nationalism's a different phenomenon.

As I'm sure Gen will appreciate, going by where he lives, not all swans are white (other non-colour-related metaphors are available).

Generali

It's not the ethnic supremacy it's the idea that a political party that exists, in the minds of many English people, to destroy the Union and which has no interest in the rest of the UK beyond perhaps what it can screw out of them want to run the place and there is a genuine risk of this happening.

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

It's not the ethnic supremacy it's the idea that a political party that exists, in the minds of many English people, to destroy the Union and which has no interest in the rest of the UK beyond perhaps what it can screw out of them want to run the place and there is a genuine risk of this happening.

People seem to have got over the idea that Plaid Cymru want to split off Wales, and now simply fight to promote Wales' interests. Although the SNP is expanding and appealing to more voters, at least some of the vote will be for clean competent governance from people that actually seem to care for the voters.

The SNP don't want Scotland to turn into another Quebec, and I'm pretty sure they don't want another referendum until they're sure they'll win comfortably. The voters get this, and are voting for them to support Scotland within the union.

They've far more to do- they're still not at the stage that their autonomy's secure, which was undisputedly part of the vow.

I sometimes wonder whether the SNP should spread their franchise across the north of England, setting up regional autonomy parties for England's remote regions, which often feel neglected by Westminster and metropolitan interests.

elantan

zagubov wrote: »

The only reference they make to nationalism is on thier website where they describe themselves as civic nationalists. Anyone seeing the ethnic makeup of the SNP would see it's nothing like UKIP/BNP.

A lot of the electorate south of the Tweed seem to conflate the term nationalist with ethnic supremacist. Civic nationalism's a different phenomenon.

As I'm sure Gen will appreciate, going by where he lives, not all swans are white (other non-colour-related metaphors are available).

To be fair that's not the only reference to nationalism they make the N in SNP is kinda nationalist as well

But yes thy are far removed from what a lot of people deem "Nationalism" to be

Voltaire7

Generali wrote: »

It's not the ethnic supremacy it's the idea that a political party that exists, in the minds of many English people, to destroy the Union and which has no interest in the rest of the UK beyond perhaps what it can screw out of them want to run the place and there is a genuine risk of this happening.

Destroy
No interest
Screw
Genuine risk

Sounds like Project Fear all over again.

You are absolutely seething that your old boys' network may be disrupted.

It's glorious.

elantan

Generali wrote: »

It's not the ethnic supremacy it's the idea that a political party that exists, in the minds of many English people, to destroy the Union and which has no interest in the rest of the UK beyond perhaps what it can screw out of them want to run the place and there is a genuine risk of this happening.

Unfortunately with MSM the way it is that won't change any time soon .... If people choose to believe MSM and not look elsewhere for information then they will continually be led around by the nose