Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

ruggedtoast

elantan wrote: »

It is inevitable, it's a case of when not if... I know that may sound hard to I believe and I understand that maybe a lot of people don't agree or understand why statements like that are made, and tbh after September 19th I didn't believe it myself .... But living here and talking to people etc ( no voters included) there is a belief it's a case of when not if, it's now in the psyche of the majority of Scot's ....

Maybe it's one of those things that you have to be in to see, but the change in people here is something I certainly didn't expect to see after the result

Which is exactly what the nat cyber people were saying in the run up to the referendum. Just before they lost by a margin of 20%.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

elantan wrote: »

It is inevitable, it's a case of when not if...

I also live here and talk to people, and the sense I get is the exact opposite.

Everyone now knows the question is off the table for a generation, 25-30 years, and most seem to understand that the matter is now settled until then.

As for now, the economic case of the SNP has evaporated since the referendum, Scotland couldn't afford to declare independence today even if it had the desire or ability to do so.

elantan

Its not off the table for a generation though, yes a few things need to happen but it looks like they will

Huge Scottish SNP contingent down to WM, Tory win in the UK, referendum vote for Europe, England choose to leave Scotland choose to stay, Huge SNP/SSP/Green win in 2016 in Holyrood all of whom have a referendum in their manifesto and jobs a good un

I live in one of the most unionist places in Scotland, we have union flags out on houses and pubs 24/7/365 we have a lot of union celebrations every year, and when I ask people they all without exception believe it will happen, they are not happy about it but are almost resigned to the fact.

I'm at the couldn't care less stage tbh and believe Scotland made its decision and even though I disagree with it I accept it and say let them get on with it, but I'm still very aware of what's going on around about me

elantan

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Which is exactly what the nat cyber people were saying in the run up to the referendum. Just before they lost by a margin of 20%.

I'm not 100% convinced they did tbh

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

elantan wrote: »

Its not off the table for a generation though,

Yes it is.

Those were the terms agreed and signed up to by all parties, it is delusional to think Westminster will now agree to a neverendum just to pacify the Nationalists.

Furthermore only the UK parliament can authorise a referendum or indeed secession from the Union, and no matter how you cut the electoral math Unionist parties will have a majority for decades to come.

yes a few things need to happen but it looks like they will

Your 'things' are unlikely, and indeed, often contradictory.

Huge Scottish SNP contingent down to WM,

Makes no difference.

As the SNP signed up to the terms of another referendum being off the table for a generation, it can just as easily be argued that the only reason SNP support is strong now is that people are comfortable voting for them safe i the knowledge it won't lead to independence.

Heck, even I might hold my nose and vote tactically for them (once) to beat Labour locally and keep Millipede from office. :beer:

Tory win in the UK

,

Can only happen if enough people vote SNP.:D

referendum vote for Europe, England choose to leave Scotland choose to stay,

Highly unlikely to happen, for two reasons.....

1) Tories are unlikely to win a majority, they'll need a coalition or support agreement from the Lib Dems, UKIP just won't get enough seats.

2) Polls currently show the UK would vote to stay if they got a referendum on Europe.

Huge SNP/SSP/Green win in 2016 in Holyrood all of whom have a referendum in their manifesto and jobs a good un

Again, makes no difference. The Scottish executive has no power to hold a referendum. That matter is reserved to Westminster.

I live in one of the most unionist places in Scotland, and when I ask people they all without exception believe it will happen,

I live up in the North East, near Salmonds constituency, and in the surrounding areas SNP support is notoriously strong. However even up here, we voted by 60%+ to stay in the Union. Even some SNP voters voted No...

The reality is that support to leave the Union only exceeded 50% in 4 out of 32 council areas. Glasgow and 2 adjoining areas, and Dundee.

The rest of the country, the other 28 council areas, voted No, and usually by a significant margin.

There is no appetite or desire for independence in the vast majority of Scotland.

It's simply not going to happen.

elantan

And that is where we will need to agree to disagree. It will happen, watch this space

CLAPTON

we need to wait at least a year or two after the election to see how events unfold.

one recalls the Quebec vote and the current appetite for independence

.string.

Well now that the Scottish Parliament are to have these additional powers, maybe the SNP are actually in a bad place, given their obsession with separatism.

If the living standard of Scotland goes up, it will work against there being an appetite for change. If it goes down, or there is not much change, the SNP will get the blame for not using the new powers properly, especially if they are seen to have been working against success and moaning all the time (as I suspect they will not be able to control themselves). The whining nature of the SNP will act against their cause.

I would expect a rapid implementation of the new Devolution for Scotland after the next General election. . . . and if the SNP try to stall the process . . Well we will all know won't we!

Then there is the 7 year itch. People being as they are, the Scottish voting electorate will want a change . -- maybe as early as 2016. The next Scottish Election should be interesting.

skintmacflint

zagubov wrote: »

We all know (I hope) that the politicians who we delegate power to are rarely up to the job.:cool:

Maybe by sending a few publicly-educated rather than privately-educated candidates we'll get some honestly more representative delegates into the Palace of Westminster than they're used to.;)

Maybe, although being publicly-educated hasn't made Salmond , Sturgeon , nor any of the other SNP party members any more honest than the rest at Westminster.

zagubov

skintmacflint wrote: »

Maybe, although being publicly-educated hasn't made Salmond , Sturgeon , nor any of the other SNP party members any more honest than the rest at Westminster.

And yet they're usually rated as being trusted more.

CLAPTON wrote: »

we need to wait at least a year or two after the election to see how events unfold.
one recalls the Quebec vote and the current appetite for independence

I doubt it's in the SNPs interests to stage a rerun in the very near future. They'll have a very good understanding of what happened in Quebec, and they famously don't see them as a good or smart example to follow. I'm not sure they even thought the 2014 was the right time for the referendum.

It'd be relatively easy to keep ruling effectively from Holyrood, and campaigning for more autonomy. As regards getting the blame for bad conditions, yeah right, that'll happen! In my recent visit(s) I got the impression that even previously loyal Labour unionists have decided that the last 40 years of Labour Scottish landslides has gone on too long.

If they give the Nats even a fraction of that amount of voter loyalty, the SNP could be there for the long haul. Labour didn't give a good account of themselves

The press have been foretelling the downfall of the SNP government for quite some time in the mistaken belief that politics has immutable natural laws of political gravity. There aren't. Remember, they gave Labour 40 years to run Scotland properly, so if they haven't proved themselves by then. they've got a lot to prove.