Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

.string.

zagubov wrote: »

Good questions, and if nobody here knows the answers, there may be other precedents elsewhere.

It might be worth checking how do Spain and Belgium handle this? Or Greenland in the Kingdom of Denmark?
Admittedly not a perfect analogy as they're in the eurozone (apart from Denmark).

I'm sure the SNP supporters here know the answers or at least they should otherwise their claims about FFA are but a puff of opaque hot air.

- Shakey, how about it, you are a member of the party, you should know the answers to such things.

I don't think there is much in common between Scotland's position and those of the places you mentioned zag.

elantan

the thing some people seem to be forgetting is Scotland has rarely voted Tory ... and mainly Labour ( who do nothing for Scotland) we get landed with Tories often so the olde ... vote SNP get Tory doesnt quite cut it ... We got the Tories when we voted Labour, and Labour deff do nothing for Scotland and are a waste of space ...

I am not a die hard SNP fan and wont be voting for them in May ... but out of all the parties in Scotland ... they are currently the best of a bad bunch

elantan

skintmacflint wrote: »

Maybe a daft question but been wondering about this.

Assuming the SNP keep their best people for MSPS (cough), what calibre of candidate will they be putting forward for Westminster.

Are they relying on Salmond winning in the Gordon seat, therefore it doesn't really matter if they're a bunch of numpties as he'll be telling them exactly what to do and when , or else.

I certainly cant speak for all candidates ... but some of the people currently standing would certainly make very good Mp's ... sadly i fear WM will eat them up and spit them out ... I hope it doesnt affect them too much as they are good people

zagubov

.string. wrote: »

I don't think there is much in common between Scotland's position and those of the places you mentioned zag.

No, there currently isn't. However, the financial arrangements between the Autonomous communities and Spain sound a lot like what is being envisaged for DevoMax/FFA, particularly as it is a highly devolved and pseudofederal country rather than a federal one. It's hard to imagine how such an arrangement could supply any more autonomy without being an explicitly federal country

Likewise Belgium, which seems rather a complex setup and is a federated kingdom with a surprising number of highly autonomous components for such a small country.

Generali wrote: »

It's simply not true to say that Labour and the Tories do nothing for Scotland. Scotland has motorways and a postal service, universities, schools and hospitals. All that has been set up and paid for at least partly using British & English money and expertise.

Yes but it had the universities since the middle ages. As I'm sure Hamish will attest, just Aberdeen alone had as many as England at one point. As for schools they had the first universal education system since Sparta.

The postal service is a great boon, but the motorways don't join any two major cities (sorry Stirling and Perth, you're great places but you don't have 6-digit population sizes and you're not cities). The gap between Glasgow and Edinburgh was such a major accident blackspot that one of the major ways of classifying head injuries is named from it (the Glasgow coma scale).

The layout couldn't be any worse, and no that wasn't under the SNPs watch; it was Labour. And sadly for Labour, the electorate just woke up and got wise to it.

elantan

Sorry i should amend that .. the Tories and Labour have done nothing for Scotland for a very very very long time.

Labour in particular are well known here for lining their own pockets, the Tories ... well we still remember old Maggie, and that wont go away anytime soon,

So the only people that have made a difference for the people of Scotland recently have been the SNP ... as i say i aint a blinded SNP supporter and can often be found arguing with various parts of their policies and actions ( my MSP knows me personally) but they are the only ones currently worth voting for in Scotland just now... not that i will be voting for them

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Oh I'm under no delusions about the SNP. I would comment on what you wrote afterwards but others have pointed out the falacies. I'll just mention one point, the SNP Conpaign for the Scottish Referendum did show to all how they based their economic argument on flakey ground. It's not that they were not warned (they liked to call the warnings "fear" but in fact the warnings were well-based as events have shown).

So you should not be surprised if that little part of the SNP's disingenuous attitude to their "Sheeple" gets referred to - people need to be reminded of their form.

Suffice to say that a No vote didn't secure jobs in the oil and gas industry, nor in retail ( Tesco closures ) and the only worry Scots have about the EU these days is the Tories and UKIP taking us out.

The 'warnings' were well based... from the Yes side. Nothing changed apart from Labour suddenly going all 'patriotic' and deciding that the NHS actually was in danger from the Tories again 4 months later.

I see the clouds are gathering regarding Labour and the claimed potential there for some sort of an agreement with the SNP should Labour come first in the General Election. Mutterings of Labour doing business with the SNP and the Sinn Fein are starting. Not that I think such is likely but I would not be surprised if the Labour leadership is forced to rule out any idea of a deal with SNP as a result; either that or loose votes in the rest of the UK.

Vote SNP and get the Tories!

You're talking from an English perspective. If Labour get most seats and refuse to do a deal with the SNP meaning they cannot form a government letting the Tories back in.. absolute suicide on a grand scale as far as Scotland is concerned.

If the Tories get back in via English votes ( because lets face it the Scots don't go for that ).. Well, lets just wait for that EU referendum shall we ?

Ken Clarke :-

“It is only just dawning on people that if we have a referendum and the English vote to leave and the Scots vote to stay, then I think that that will be the end of UK. I don’t want to see the end of the UK.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/british-must-bear-ireland-in-mind-over-eu-membership-says-kenneth-clarke-1.2082990

So don't get too smug about Labour doing deals, or not as the case may be. They ALL have big consequences north of the border too. If Labour are to rule it out, they'll do it very close to the election ( and mark this post )... hoping to cause blind panic among low information Scots voters with the old 'vote SNP get Tory' mantra.

The only problem with that of course is that most Scots now see their own parliament as just as important in their day to day lives as Westminster these days. Your own perspective is somewhat different I can totally respect that. But this is kind of a Scottish based thread so I'm saying it how I see it from a Scottish perspective.

Delving deep into the Ipsos-MORI/STV poll I found startling polling figures amongst 18-24 year olds and 25-34 year olds, the former registering just 11% support for Labour and the latter 20%. Furthermore, Labour’s highest support levels in terms of employment status was to be found amongst those who are retired with a nine percent increase above the national average at 31%. It seems that there has been a generational shift away from the Labour Party in Scotland.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/308257-aidan-kerr-on-the-electoral-challenges-facing-the-scottish-labour-party/

Labour in Scotland is dying a death. And my own opinion and experience ( with my two eldest children and their friends ) is that the referendum has really woken the young ones up to politics.. Those that never traditionally find their ways to the polling booths. Social media has had a large part to play in that. But in this particular General election ? They will be turning out in droves voting in Scotland. And not for Labour.

It may not be enough this time round to topple those huge 'traditional' old school voter Labour majorities. Though is looking hopeful at least ! But it is coming.. and no amount of Labour posturing about how voting SNP to let the Tories in will be enough in a few years. They won't care. To most up here Labour v's Tory is just fighting the wrong election. As Labour found out to their cost in 2011 Holyrood.

I honestly think Scotland is lost. Sooner or later. And all the half-way houses. EVEL, horse trading deals, EU referendum and Smith commissions in the world won't stop whatever is happening right now. Sorry. 45% is enough to lose a referendum.. 45% in a General Election is a Labour/Lib Dem wipeout in Scotland, the polls are showing very close to that at present. ( I'm still skeptical about that ! ).

Like the Scotland Act in 2012, the Smith reforms have become obsolete even before they've become law. Scotland is on a trajectory that seems to be accelerating out of the UK. Smith looks like another unstable half-way house on the road, if not to independence, then to radical home rule.

I don't fully understand how this has happened so soon after Scots voted in the referendum to stay in the Union. Something, somewhere, snapped in the Scottish electorate after September 18. Nationalism has gripped the imagination of voters as never before in Scottish history.

There are only 10 weeks to go before the General Election campaign begins. If Jim Murphy doesn't start to claw back some of the ground lost to Nicola Sturgeon in the very near future, then Scotland could become independent sooner than anyone expected.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/the-smith-reforms-have-become-obsolete-even-before-theyve-become-law.116853225

Hey and don't take things so personally in future. We're only discussing events and opinions.

zagubov

skintmacflint wrote: »

Maybe a daft question but been wondering about this.

Assuming the SNP keep their best people for MSPS (cough), what calibre of candidate will they be putting forward for Westminster.

Are they relying on Salmond winning in the Gordon seat, therefore it doesn't really matter if they're a bunch of numpties as he'll be telling them exactly what to do and when , or else.

Are you worried the candidates they'll send will just be halfwits? Never mind, that'll still make them 50% better than the typical witless wonders of Westminster.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

I love your analyses. 18 different ways that all outcomes are positive for the SNP!:rotfl:

Why thanks. Why don't you counter that with your own more negative viewpoints instead of posting and running. I'd welcome it.

Go on then big guy. Let's see what you're made of ? :rotfl:

Negative outcomes for the SNP in May are :-

I await your own analysis with bated breath.... ;-)

zagubov

Generali wrote: »

I love your analyses. 18 different ways that all outcomes are positive for the SNP!:rotfl:

They're not positive for the SNP. It's just that the other three parties crumbled in the daylight that the referendum argument let in. Sooner or later some erroneous Tesco/Ocado delivery containing garlic or holy water would have achieved the same outcome.:cool:

skintmacflint

zagubov wrote: »

Are you worried the candidates they'll send will just be halfwits? Never mind, that'll still make them 50% better than the typical witless wonders of Westminster.

2 wrongs don't make it right. Things are bad enough without sending a crew of AS puppets down there to join them.

It might make for good viewing with popcorn initially, but think it will soon get even more tedious than usual.

But if it's the voters choice so be it. We reap what we sow.