Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

... What complete rubbish you do write, that was even worse than the normal drivel. The progress thus far regarding the Vow has been good on that Vow; it's implementation has been discussed with all (except, I must say, the rest of the United Kingdom) and is on track.

But then we all know that all faithful SNP Party members will find all sorts of very silly excuses and misrepresentations to complain about the implementation of the result of the Scottish Referendum and derail the process.

I asked once for one thing that was not being done as per the Vow; as usual there was no answer, just "squirrelling" away from that one too.

Well I won't enter into any 'tit for tat' accusations of anyone posting drivel here. But I don't always respond to your posts because they are woefully uninformed and lack anything much in the way of content that isn't just rants about the SNP. I must also point out that you keep using my ( new ) SNP membership as something I should be personally ashamed of. I make no secret about posting stuff on threads like this one from a pro-independence/SNP stance. I think a DEBATE forum is all the better for that. It does you no favours at all to resort to insulting other forum members and posts on the basis of their political stance. Simply because it does not agree with your own.

The Vow itself was very ambiguious in how it was worded, and deliberately so. However, newspapers, online commentary and tv programs were filled to the brim with BetterTogether advocates agreeing that this was 'Devo-Max' ( Alistair Darling ) and 'Home Rule' ( Gordon Brown ). The whole point of the Vow was to be as vague as possible, but sound good to the masses.

So, if you want me to tell you what to the letter the Vow hasn't delivered I cannot tell you. Because neither does the Vow itself go into anything much in the way of detail.

However, the leader of BetterTogether and a former Prime Minister were given acres of headlines, and numerous appearances on various prime time TV and BBC news 'specials'... in order to proclaim this was Devo Max, Home Rule and 'as close to federalism as you could possibly get'. And that's before we even get to EVEL announced by Cameron barely an hour after the votes were counted which was an 'unknown' up till then.

I guess it all comes down to whether you are more inclined to believe a thinly worded mocked up document on the front of a Scottish newspaper. Or, those who are ( were, they ran away pretty quickly afterwards ) in a position to negotiate and deliver all this Devo max stuff they were on about..endlessly.. for about a week prior to the referendum.

As I've stated before, those who voted Yes like myself, didn't believe a word of any vow's or Devo-max proclaimations to start with anyway. So you will see no anger from me on that score. I don't feel 'betrayed' or 'bitter'. It's the No voters who voted No on the strength of the promises that feel that way. But if it's not to be independence right now, and I accept the result fully, then Devo-max is perfectly acceptable ( for me personally) as a basis to fight an election on.

elantan

I do wonder how many No voters do feel betrayed ... Surely they must have known not to believe any of the rubbish from the vow ?

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

I do wonder how many No voters do feel betrayed ... Surely they must have known not to believe any of the rubbish from the vow ?

I think the movement in the Westminster polls, from even/stevens between Labour/SNP at the time of the referendum regarding the Westminster elections... and the polls now are a fair indicator of how many actually did think Scotland was getting Devo-max.

Though I see Gordon Brown is about to enter stage left again.. I guess there will be more vague Scottish Home Rule vow's on offer, as well as wall to wall coverage on the BBC pretty soon.

elantan

Surely no one is daft enough to fall for it again ?

elantan

Shake, can I ask , did u go to any of the public meetings ? And if so who was your favourite speaker ?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Salmond has recently said the SNP will not ask for another referendum as part of any deal at Westminster in the event they gain enough seats to have an influence, but will push for 'home rule' instead.

Not a surprise really, as in their heart of hearts, not even the SNP want independence with the current oil price.

He has also quite delusionally blamed Brown for the referendum defeat.

elantan

Och Hamish do keep up

Salmond did state that yes, be he has also stated that he will always want independence for Scotland, its the 2016 HR that will decide when we go for it again ... Salmond is just doing what he does best and that's to stir up a hornets nest ... Nothing but nothing would make that man happier than being sacked from WM cause Scotland is independent


And if you think Brown is innocent then go sit on the deluded step with string

elantan

Please also remember Salmond wanted Devo Max / home rule on the referendum ballot he was denied it , so he will fight for it another way

zagubov

elantan wrote: »

Devo Max or as near to federalism was the terminology used

I'm pretty sure it won't take you long to find the evidence to back it up

This article sums up how the media presented it with that precise term.

However, the Devo Plus website shows that what Scotland was offered was a modest version of Devo Plus, not Devo Max. Of course the unionist parties who set this up have let that website expire so we have to use the wayback machine to find it.;)

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

This article sums up how the media presented it with that precise term.

However, the Devo Plus website shows that what Scotland was offered was a modest version of Devo Plus, not Devo Max. Of course the unionist parties who set this up have let that website expire so we have to use the wayback machine to find it.;)

Scotland was offered some version of devo plus without any mandate from the people of the UK