Liverpool Airport PCN received from Vehicle Control Services

Umkomaas

The_Deep wrote: »

I suppose that on this "balance of probabilities" thing, if you were not the driver you can always swear an oath to that effect and, when you win, charge it to the claimant. The last time I swore such an oath it cost £60.

I readily admit to being no expert on the SCC, or its procedures (having never had the 'pleasure'), but do you 'swear on oath' there?

Toiletduck

Umkomaas wrote: »

If this ultimately goes to a small claims court, showing you've been reasonable in following the appeals' process could be more beneficial than not doing so. But VCS aren't likely to go anywhere near a court with their very spurious pursuit of 'parking' charges on land covered by byelaws - even though they seem not now to be pursuing the keeper under POFA 2012 with their weasel words about assuming the keeper was the driver on the day - 'balance of probabilities' tosh!

You need to get a photo of their signage, as they may well still be using BPA-style signs (breach/contravention) that the IPC don't like and the IAS can uphold appeals on.

But don't stop to take shots - Catch 22!

Ok, so is the template letter basically fine to email?

The difficulty in taking a photo of the sign without being charged again surely illustrates the ridiculousness of the charge!

The_Deep

You swear an oath in front of a commissioner, usually a solicitor, but a British Consul can do it.

Umkomaas

Yep, use the template. It's been carefully crafted, which does not in any way indicate who the driver was. Please don't undo that critical aspect by trying to adapt it.

Send it off and await the outcome (but we're all pretty sure what that will be) then take the next steps thereafter. Meantime do a bit of reading on post-September 2014, VCS/JLA/IPC cases on here and PePiPoo.

Toiletduck

Umkomaas wrote: »

Yep, use the template. It's been carefully crafted, which does not in any way indicate who the driver was. Please don't undo that critical aspect by trying to adapt it.

Send it off and await the outcome (but we're all pretty sure what that will be) then take the next steps thereafter. Meantime do a bit of reading on post-September 2014, VCS/JLA/IPC cases on here and PePiPoo.

Why is that important?

An issue I have this being in my wifes name is that she is already getting stressed about it. She is exactly the type of person these tactics are designed to intimidate into paying up immediately. She just wouldnt put up with the stress.

Umkomaas

Toiletduck wrote: »

Why is that important?

An issue I have this being in my wifes name is that she is already getting stressed about it. She is exactly the type of person these tactics are designed to intimidate into paying up immediately. I on the other hand quite enjoy a fight, hence I was considering nominating myself as the driver on the form in case it goes to small claims. She just wouldnt put up with the stress.

As explained to The Deep in post #10. If they are pursuing the keeper under PoFA 2012, JLA is not 'relevant land' as it is covered by byelaws. This does not prevent them pursuing the driver.

But VCS has fudged all of this over the years. They (and a number of other airport PPCs around the country) have issued zillions of airport 'no stopping' PCNs and there will have been loads of non-payers, yet not one has been served with court papers - why? - because of the risk that their airport (not relevant land) business model will be exposed, and their house of cards collapse around their ears.

The_Deep

She is exactly the type of person these tactics are designed to intimidate into paying up immediately. I on the other hand quite enjoy a fight, ... She just wouldnt put up with the stress.

This is why these companies are able to stay in business.

Coupon-mad

This is potentially winnable at IAS, but the appeal MUST come from your wife (you can do it for her though).

She is the 'keeper' but she wasn't driving so she could prove it, at IAS stage, by attaching as evidence, a statement signed by the passenger you were dropping off or collecting, saying that 'on xxxxxx date at xx time I was dropped/collected from xxxx Airport and travelled as a passenger in car reg xxxx xxxx. The driver of the car was 'my Uncle' or 'my Dad' or whatever that identifies the driver as male (no name though!) and I hereby confirm as a statement of truth that Mrs xxxxxx was not in the car.'

At IAS stage she would also need to attach the PCN (both sides)as a further evidence item, to show that the Notice is not one which alleges keeper liability under the POFA 2012, it is one which merely says 'we are writing to you on the assumption you were the driver'. Never mind the byelaws, VCS are no longer using a Notice which is capable of holding a keeper liable. She is untouchable and IAS will agree I think IF there is corroboration (but it can't come from you, for obvious reasons!).

Proof that she wasn't driving, IMHO wins the appeal beyond any balance of probs!

Toiletduck

Umkomaas wrote: »

As explained to The Deep in post #10. If they are pursuing the keeper under PoFA 2012, JLA is not 'relevant land' as it is covered by byelaws. This does not prevent them pursuing the driver.

But VCS has fudged all of this over the years. They (and a number of other airport PPCs around the country) have issued zillions of airport 'no stopping' PCNs and there will have been loads of non-payers, yet not one has been served with court papers - why? - because of the risk that their airport (not relevant land) business model will be exposed, and their house of cards collapse around their ears.

OK, does the fact they took 2 months to send the PCN from the alleged infringement date have any impact? I see a 14 day time limit s mentioned in some threads but I havent read why?

The_Deep

Indeed, beyond reasonable doubt.