Liverpool Airport PCN received from Vehicle Control Services

Toiletduck

Hi I appreciate the newbie faq posts are very detailed but Id appreciate a little advice as Im not 100% clear on the lease car impact.

Anyway here it is:

PCN issued this month with a conravention date 2 calendar months previously at Liverpool Airport, reason given is "Stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited". Photographs of stopped car provided.

I was planning on using the template letter for the first stage appeal but Im not 100% clear on the lease car notes at the end of the page. Complications are its a lease car in my wifes name. Is my wife the keeper?


Thanks in advance.

Redx

yes she is the keeper, but the point here is you dont want an NTK going to the lease company (the RK at the dvla), them paying it and then the keeper or driver trying to sort it out after being charged by the hirer

so the keeper sends the template letter to deflect the PPC away from the RK

Toiletduck

Redx wrote: »

yes she is the keeper, but the point here is you dont want an NTK going to the lease company (the RK at the dvla), them paying it and then the keeper or driver trying to sort it out after being charged by the hirer

so the keeper sends the template letter to deflect the PPC away from the RK

OK thanks, I presume the lease company is not involved at this stage though anyway as we received the PCN directly. Just reading the faq, worryingly the PCN mentions IAS as the 2nd stage appeal service whereas all the success stories on here appear to relate to POPLA?

Marktheshark

I think most are porting to the IAS as fast as they can be facilitated.
Which will take as right back to square one of completely ignoring them until they put up in court.
As far as i know keeper liability does not extend to airport land, so the registered keeper should be exempt from POFA.
Anyone clarify this ?

Redx

Toiletduck wrote: »

OK thanks, I presume the lease company is not involved at this stage though anyway as we received the PCN directly. Just reading the faq, worryingly the PCN mentions IAS as the 2nd stage appeal service whereas all the success stories on here appear to relate to POPLA?

seems to me that the hire company have followed the BVRLA directive from earlier this year (or earlier) and have notified the PPC of the keeper of the hire car, hence the keeper will have received the NTK in their name, so the keeper can alter the template letter to say KEEPER and not REGISTERED KEEPER (if it needs alering) and appeal it

this will be turned down

then its 6 years of ignore UNLESS an LBC or MCOL arrives from the PPC as there is no faith in the IAS and no popla if its after the IPC join date

Umkomaas

VCS moved to IPC on 29/9/14. Is your 'parking' event date before or after that date?

Toiletduck

Umkomaas wrote: »

VCS moved to IPC on 29/9/14. Is your 'parking' event date before or after that date?

It's in October unfortunately.

If each appeal is guaranteed to be rejected, what is the point in following the procedure in the newbee FAQ?

Is any sort of response just going to make them more likely to come after you? Perhaps it's better not to enter into any process with them and ignore all correspondence? What do they do when the appeals fail?

Umkomaas

If this ultimately goes to a small claims court, showing you've been reasonable in following the appeals' process could be more beneficial than not doing so. But VCS aren't likely to go anywhere near a court with their very spurious pursuit of 'parking' charges on land covered by byelaws - even though they seem not now to be pursuing the keeper under POFA 2012 with their weasel words about assuming the keeper was the driver on the day - 'balance of probabilities' tosh!

You need to get a photo of their signage, as they may well still be using BPA-style signs (breach/contravention) that the IPC don't like and the IAS can uphold appeals on.

But don't stop to take shots - Catch 22!

The_Deep

Hang on, on what basis can the I.A.S. turn down an appeal based on byelaws/relevant land. Surely refusal would expose them to ridicule should it ever get to court.

Would it not be better to lodge the appeal and if they turn it down write to your MP, motoring association local paper etc,. pointing out the dichotomy between their decisions and Popla, which routinely upholds appeals at airports.?

Umkomaas

The_Deep wrote: »

Hang on, on what basis can the I.A.S. turn down an appeal based on byelaws/relevant land. Surely refusal would expose them to ridicule should it ever get to court.

Would it not be better to lodge the appeal and if they turn it down write to your MP, motoring association local paper etc,. pointing out the dichotomy between their decisions and Popla, which routinely upholds appeals at airports.?

They can pursue the driver under Byelaws but not the keeper as PoFA 2012 does not provide for this. Depends who they are pursuing, and hence my comment about their quite recent change of tack and their 'balance of probabilities' weasel words.

I wouldn't disagree with your final paragraph.

This wouldn't go anywhere near a court, and if it did, the legal heavyweights from here and PePiPoo would be fighting with each other to get their day in court alongside the OP.

The_Deep

I suppose that on this "balance of probabilities" thing, if you were not the driver you can always swear an oath to that effect and, when you win in court, charge it to the claimant. The last time I swore such an oath it cost £60.

However, the downside is that if they chicken out you may have to claim/counterclaim against them.