4-5 year old BMW or new mazda 3/6, Toyota Auris Hybrid

darkmatter101

Strider590 wrote: »

I wouldn't go so far as too call them "high end", that's just an illusion created during the 1980's, when the wannabe middle classes were buying them under the belief that these new German cars were of a higher status.

In Europe, they're not really considered any better than a Ford Mondeo and they're a lot cheaper over there.

Like I said, they know their market, the British wannabe middle classes.

Most of them, sub 3 years old are on finance deals, so I wonldn't say they can "afford" them. If getting finance classes as "affording", then i'd be driving a £60'000 motor.

Again, utter nonsense. Do you really believe that in other European countries, let alone the world, consider BMW's/Mercs on the same level Fords??!!! You don't seem to know cars at all. There is a reason why BMW/Merc built up the reputation they have. If you know anything about cars, these 'higher end' cars bring out technology that is usually 10 years ahead of other 'lower end' car makes. In addition the engineering that goes into these cars are of a higher standard, i.e. higher tolerance levels, superior materials etc. Not to mention they are RWD as opposed to a Ford which is FWD.

I do agree though many of the 'middle class' buy BMWs/Mercs for their badge and see them as status symbol. HOWEVER you will find the majority of these 'middleclass' people tend to buy the lower end BMWs and MERCs.

knightstyle

Forget the BMWs, go for an Auris diesel, big enough, good UK build quality and amazing mpg. Look for ex demonstrators rather than new as they have lots of extras fitted.

Strider590

darkmatter101 wrote: »

In addition the engineering that goes into these cars are of a higher standard

That's not possible, it's just not, the automotive industry has the highest of all quality standards (well above military), it's all much of a muchness within Europe, the greatest level of engineering comes out of Japan, who tend to over engineer their stuff to the extremes.......

I've personally carried out CMM testing on a Japanese manufacturers parts, to with 1 millionth of a mm, rarely if ever do the European manufacturers go to those levels of detail and the tolerances for "safety critical" equipment (ABS, EPAS systems, etc) they'd make your eyes water.

This idea that one is better than the other, it's nothing but sales and marketing hype.

motorguy

Strider590 wrote: »

That's not possible, it's just not, the automotive industry has the highest of all quality standards (well above military), it's all much of a muchness within Europe, the greatest level of engineering comes out of Japan, who tend to over engineer their stuff to the extremes.......

I've personally carried out CMM testing on a Japanese manufacturers parts, to with 1 millionth of a mm, rarely if ever do the European manufacturers go to those levels of detail and the tolerances for "safety critical" equipment (ABS, EPAS systems, etc) they'd make your eyes water.

This idea that one is better than the other, it's nothing but sales and marketing hype.

And with all your experience in quality standards, you bought a... Vectra 1.8i?

Thats the same as a 3 series BMW is it?

darkmatter101

Strider590 wrote: »

That's not possible, it's just not, the automotive industry has the highest of all quality standards (well above military), it's all much of a muchness within Europe, the greatest level of engineering comes out of Japan, who tend to over engineer their stuff to the extremes.......

This idea that one is better than the other, it's nothing but sales and marketing hype.

I think you're talking more about manufacturing philosophies, practices and principles. For example I know Toyota has the best manufacturing practices in the entire automotive industry, but that does not necessarily translate to creating the best car. Creating efficient assembly lines etc whilst creating the car, yes, but creating the BEST car, no.

BMW's and Merc's invest far more on R&D than other car brands such as Fords, Vauxhall. Go look inside a e46 M3. The level of technology used for that car was far ahead of its time and still much more complex than todays Astra or Mondeo.

Mercedes are known to invent car technologies that are widely used today such as the worlds first ABS and independent 4 wheel suspension. Porsche created the worlds first hybrid car. Look at S-class mercs, historically they are way ahead of their time. BMW and Mercs etc use cutting edge technology. Toyota, Vauxhall, Hyundai use tried and tested technology invented 10 years before.

How do you think car brands such as BMW, Porsche and Merc have the reputation they have today? Through fluke? no.

I find it a joke that you truly believe your Vauxhall Vectra is the same as even a 318i.

burlington6

darkmatter101 wrote: »

I think you're talking more about manufacturing philosophies, practices and principles. For example I know Toyota has the best manufacturing practices in the entire automotive industry, but that does not necessarily translate to creating the best car. Creating efficient assembly lines etc whilst creating the car, yes, but creating the BEST car, no.

BMW's and Merc's invest far more on R&D than other car brands such as Fords, Vauxhall. Go look inside a e46 M3. The level of technology used for that car was far ahead of its time and still much more complex than todays Astra or Mondeo.

Mercedes are known to invent car technologies that are widely used today such as the worlds first ABS and independent 4 wheel suspension. Porsche created the worlds first hybrid car. Look at S-class mercs, historically they are way ahead of their time. BMW and Mercs etc use cutting edge technology. Toyota, Vauxhall, Hyundai use tried and tested technology invented 10 years before.

How do you think car brands such as BMW, Porsche and Merc have the reputation they have today? Through fluke? no.

I find it a joke that you truly believe your Vauxhall Vectra is the same as even a 318i.

Tell me more about an E46 M3 please

darkmatter101

burlington6 wrote: »

Tell me more about an E46 M3 please

I know you are being sarcastic. And FYI I have the E92 M3 not the E46. What car do you drive? A miserable Mondeo?

macman

Personally I'm more than happy for BMW/Merc to invent the new technology, wait a few years for them to sort out the gremlins in by using their customers to test it, and then get it on a Hyundai or Mazda etc when it's finally going to be trouble free.

OddballJamie

Crvs the car choices you've given are fairly different.

What I think you should do is a list of priorities of what you want from the car, then put it in order. Not all cars are excellent at everything, they are have strengths and weaknesses.

motorguy

Strider590 wrote: »

This idea that one is better than the other, it's nothing but sales and marketing hype.

Its quite amusing that you seem to invade any prestige car related thread to give your view on how crap the car actually is, and how deluded the buyers are, but when challenged and questioned directly on that, you go all quiet?