Co-op refused to change the fake £2 they gave me in change.

antrobus

Azari wrote: »

And as the transaction is not complete, the cashier is now aware that the coin is fake, and s/he still insists that you accept it, then they clearly do intend to use the fake coin.

Although it would probably only be a criminal act if they refused to reverse the transaction. (Reversal being the equivalent of the customer not being able to leave with goods purchased with a fake coin.)

The cashier is aware that a customer is claiming that the coin is fake. It is perfectly possible that the coin is in fact genuine. Even if it weren't genuine, a criminal act would not have been committed if the cashier actually believed that the coin was genuine. That's the meaning of 'intent' in the context of the criminal law.

However, I do wish you would at least be consistent in the arguments that you present. You started off in post #20, by agreeing with Shaun from Africa's comment that "Simply passing a counterfeit coin or banknote isn't illegal", and stating "Of course not. Otherwise we'd all be criminals.", but have spent the rest of the thread arguing to the contrary.:)

Personally I think you're just bored and are just looking for an argument.:)

Azari

antrobus wrote: »

The cashier is aware that a customer is claiming that the coin is fake. It is perfectly possible that the coin is in fact genuine. Even if it weren't genuine, a criminal act would not have been committed if the cashier actually believed that the coin was genuine. That's the meaning of 'intent' in the context of the criminal law.

I don't disagree with that.

However the shops refusal to replace the coin with another seems prima facie evidence that they do believe that the coin is fake.

Otherwise, why annoy a customer by refusing such a simple request of changing it for (an)other coin(s)?

However, I do wish you would at least be consistent in the arguments that you present. You started off in post #20, by agreeing with Shaun from Africa's comment that "Simply passing a counterfeit coin or banknote isn't illegal", and stating "Of course not. Otherwise we'd all be criminals.", but have spent the rest of the thread arguing to the contrary.:)

This is where poor comprehension skills fail you as they fail bod.

My argument is that the cashier is is aware, once it has been pointed out, and the coin refused. The fact that they continue to insist the customer accepts it is what I believe possibly constitutes a criminal act.

Personally I think you're just bored and are just looking for an argument.:)

LOL, I could say exactly the same of you but I do accept that it may be because you failed to understand the subtle difference between simply attempting to pass currency which do not believe to be fake and continuing to pass currency once you have been made aware that it is fake.

Actually the difference is not that subtle so I don't see why you have such a problem understanding it.

clarkey3262

londonTiger wrote: »

To be honest, nobody trains staff on fake coins, people rarely count coins let as long check for authenticity. Maybe you can take it to your bank and get a receipt as proof. Then get the name of staff and write to head office and they'll write you a £2 cheque.

Or just keep it as an satirical souvenir, when I was 17 a shop owner gave me a diana and Prince of Wales commemorative £5 coin. It cost £5 to buy back then but was not legal tender. Anyway long story short shop owner tricked me into taking it as change but some 10 years later I still have it and it was the first coin in my small coin collection.

Looking at the Royal Mint website actually it appears the £5 coin is legal tender. Legal tender only applies to paying court payments, a shop or other business can refuse to take any form of payment it so decides (such as many not accepting £50 notes, so the £5 coin might not be accepted by a bank or shop that is at their discretion). Legal tender is also only money produced by the bank of England (sorry Scotland, your money in that sense is monopoly money in England and Wales)

bod1467

Azari wrote: »

I just love the way you keep saying things without any backup logic.



Wrong.

Please make sure someone supplies you with a couple of sandwiches before your next picnic.

in post #33 I quoted antrobus but said: "I challenge all those who ..."

You then jumped in in post #38 and said you never said any such thing.

If you never said it, then I was clearly not talking to you! (Unless you and antrobus are the same person.) All your subsequent posts aimed at me follow on from that failure on your part to understand that I was never talking to you when I made the "I challenge" comment.

Blah blah - selective reading again. I'm out - can't be bothered trying to educate you.

System

Francesanne wrote: »

I was given one in my change when shopping in M&S. Went to buy some cards in Card Factory and assistant wouldn't accept the coin. Went back to M&S and explained what had happened in Card Factory and was immediately given replacement £2.00 coin without a quibble.

What were the signs you could tell it was a fake?

bazzyb

ScarletMarble wrote: »

What were the signs you could tell it was a fake?

The Queen had a moustache.

Azari

bod1467 wrote: »

Blah blah - selective reading again. I'm out - can't be bothered trying to educate you.

Once again you ignore logic based on documented evidence (post #52) and make some mindless comment with no back up reasoning or counter evidence.

bod1467

I wasn't going to comment again ... but I notice this thread has been trimmed.

@Azari ... your "evidence" post is in itself an example of selective reading.

Azari wrote: »

in post #33 I quoted antrobus but said: "I challenge all those who ..."

You then jumped in in post #38 and said you never said any such thing.

Erm no ... you are selectively ignoring posts #34 and #37, which are critical to the points being made. I said "no such thing" about the last line of your post #37.

londonTiger

clarkey3262 wrote: »

Looking at the Royal Mint website actually it appears the £5 coin is legal tender. Legal tender only applies to paying court payments, a shop or other business can refuse to take any form of payment it so decides (such as many not accepting £50 notes, so the £5 coin might not be accepted by a bank or shop that is at their discretion). Legal tender is also only money produced by the bank of England (sorry Scotland, your money in that sense is monopoly money in England and Wales)

The royal mint can say whatever they like, but banks don't accept them and if banks don't accept them then no business would accept them because they will effectively lose £5 down the drain because they can't bank it or pay their suppliers with it. It's also a rare size, rare coin so it doesn't fit into their registers or money handling device properly - coins need to be put in coin bags and there are no coin bags for £5 coins.

PLog86

bod1467 wrote: »

I wasn't going to comment again ... but I notice this thread has been trimmed.

@Azari ... your "evidence" post is in itself an example of selective reading.



Erm no ... you are selectively ignoring posts #34 and #37, which are critical to the points being made. I said "no such thing" about the last line of your post #37.

Bod, your problem was caused by your not using the quote system correctly. You said that you didn't say something and then quoted a post, but the post you quoted was not the one you were referring too. You should ALWAYS quote a post if you want to comment on it. You can occasionally get away with replying to a post directly above your own,although you are likely to get caught out if someone else posts in the interim leaving your post a bit incomprehensible, so it's never a good idea.

In this case, though, as you quoted another post underneath your comment it looked for all the world as if the comment related to that. Hence, I imagine, azari's confusion.