Co-op refused to change the fake £2 they gave me in change.

Azari

George_Michael wrote: »

That scenario stated above isn't wrong, it is exactly how the law would look at it.
As others have stated, for an offence to have taken place, you must know or think that you are using fake currency.
Not noticing or knowing = no criminal offence can be committed.

You've completely ignored the part of the post where I say that the offence might be theft.

If it was possible to be charged for using counterfeit currency whilst not being aware of the fact, and with an estimated 40 to 45 million fake £1 coins in circulation, I wonder how many people would be breaking the law every time they went shopping.

I already made that point way back.

Azari

antrobus wrote: »

Nah, I believe that they are right.

Under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981 there is a s15 offence of passing counterfeit notes and coins, and a s16 offence of possessing counterfeit notes and coins. In both cases the offences are only committed by someone who "knows or believes" something to be a counterfeit. They are not strict liability offences; intent must be established.

If someone hands you a fake coin and you refuse to accept it and they in turn refuse to replace it I am still pretty much convinced that they are committing an offence of passing counterfeit coinage.

The transaction has not completed until you accept what you are given and so they are aware that the coin is fake during the transaction.

I am not convinced by the arguments presented here because it effectively means that people could be passing counterfeit currency, claiming not to know it was counterfeit, and the recipients would be powerless to do anything other than mount a civil action.

I challenge all those who maintain that there is no offence if no one can prove you knew something was counterfeit to walk into a supermarket with a fake note and refuse to pay properly once made aware of the fact that the note is fake. I'd love to see how far you'd get. :rotfl:

bod1467

You can refuse to pay with non-counterfeit money - they can equally refuse to let you leave with the goods.

mandragora_2

Leave the reduced items, ask for your fiver back and walk away?

wacko911

The banks arent turning away fake coins from members of the public so the whole argument is pointless. They weigh them. As soon as every coin is checked at branch then people will stop accepting them and the currency will drop like a stone due to loss of confidence.

Azari

bod1467 wrote: »

You can refuse to pay with non-counterfeit money - they can equally refuse to let you leave with the goods.

So why are you applying one rule to the shop and another to the shopper?

You are saying that if the shop decide that a coin is counterfeit they can physically prevent you from using it but if the shopper decides it is counterfeit they have to just put up with it unless they bring a civil suit.

bod1467

I said nothing of the sort.

Azari wrote: »

I challenge all those who maintain that there is no offence if no one can prove you knew something was counterfeit to walk into a supermarket with a fake note and refuse to pay properly once made aware of the fact that the note is fake. I'd love to see how far you'd get. :rotfl:

bod1467 wrote: »

You can refuse to pay with non-counterfeit money - they can equally refuse to let you leave with the goods.

Let's keep comments in context please.

Azari

bod1467 wrote: »

I said nothing of the sort.

Let's keep comments in context please.

The post you quoted was clearly not directed at you (as it explicitly said it was for people who did say that), so your post above is completely nonsensical.

bod1467

Last time I looked this was a discussion forum, and there were no restrictions on who could respond to any post. Can you point me to anything that says otherwise?

If not then I was quite within my rights to rebut your earlier statement - whether I agreed or otherwise with "the people" you directed your statement at. You made a statement; I gave a scenario that addressed your statement - nothing more, nothing less.

Azari

bod1467 wrote: »

Last time I looked this was a discussion forum, and there were no restrictions on who could respond to any post. Can you point me to anything that says otherwise?

Your reading skills seem to be all but no-existent.

Who said anything about you not being allowed to post nonsense - or anything else?

If not then I was quite within my rights to rebut your earlier statement - whether I agreed or otherwise with "the people" you directed your statement at. You made a statement; I gave a scenario that addressed your statement - nothing more, nothing less.

You quoted a post of mine after the comment: "I said nothing of the sort."

I was merely pointing out that I never said you did. :rotfl: