Help - Was I Mis-sold my Car?

Goonie

I believe I may have been mis-sold my car and it is now not fit for purpose. It's a long story and would take me ages to write up so I have copied and pasted the below bullet points which I have made to send to the Ombudsman as part of my complaint.


I have spoken to consumer advice and recently the Ombudsman who has opened a case but I just wanted to know if anyone else has been in a similar position and knows where I stand?


I want the problem resolving but I am not sure how exactly. I either want out of the finance agreement or a replacement petrol car but this may mean a lower value and I'm just a bit stuck as to what I'm entitled to???


The problem is because of a DPF - Diesel Particulate Filter and the problems I've had are as follows (Hope you've got some spare time!!)

• Car purchased October 2013 from garage.
  
• I spoke to salesman on two occasions prior to purchase about the car. First of all to enquire about the car and the second time to enquire further and take for a test drive. At no point did he mention anything to do with this ‘DPF’ Filter.

• First problem – Thurs 03.07.14 – I was driving home from work when a warning light came on - Service Vehicle Soon. The car went into limp mode in the middle of the motorway during rush hour traffic, not ideal or safe at all.
• Fri 04.07.14 – I took to the car to the garage I had purchased from the next morning. When I dropped the car, the receptionist asked if the DPF light had come on. I did not know what this was so informed her of this and said no it had not come on. She said ok, we’ll check it out and call you later.
  
• I received a phone call later that day to advise it was the DPF – Diesel Particulate Filter which had become blocked and the receptionist questioned my driving style and distances. I informed her I travel approx. 6 – 8 motorway miles in the morning then probably less in the evening as I stop off at the gym in Urmston on the way home, so maybe 5 motorway miles on the way home. This is 5 days a week but the rest, and majority, of my driving is urban / city driving. She told me this was not enough and I need to travel long distances over 2000 revolutions or this filter would become blocked. I told her these were my distances so this problem is just going to keep recurring to which she replied saying I had to take the car out every week or two on the motorway for about 20 minutes at high revolutions. Meaning I would have to take time out of my weekend to needlessly drive the car, wasting diesel and adding miles and wear & tear to the vehicle.
  
  
• Garage wanted to charge £45 Diagnostics plus approx £120 for filter replacement. I argued that I did not feel I should have to pay these charges as I believe I should have been informed of this at the time of enquiry or at worst, the time of sale. This filter was never mentioned, my style of driving was never questioned, and it was never recommended that I travel long distances in order to avoid this problem.
  
• I complained to garage by phone and refused to pay the charges as I was never informed about DPF. I argued my case with Sales Manager who agreed to waive the charges as a ‘good will gesture’. He also said that if I was not happy I could go into the garage and they would see what they could do to try and assist.
  
  
• Eventually the car was repaired free of charge on 04/07/14. I collected the vehicle on the evening of Fri 04/07/14 and the car seemed ok.
  
• Sat 05/07/14 – I left home to go to the gym and in less than a mile, I had the exact same problem in morning, the Service Vehicle Soon warning light came on and car again went into limp mode. I called garage and again spoke to sales manager who said I should take it on the motorway for a few junctions at high rev’s in order to get the warning light to go off. I did this and after about 10 minutes the light went out and the car resumed full power.
  
  
• Sat 05/07/14 – In the afternoon I went to garage to speak to sales manager regarding options. He said I should have been handed a Diesel Particulate Filter leaflet at the time of sale but as previously mentioned, this had not happened and there was no mention of this problem or how to avoid it. He said I could trade in my vehicle for another and this was my only real option. I disagree with this as it means that I still lose out and the only people who gain are the garage which is completely unfair when I believe I have been mis-sold the car.
  
• I asked the question ‘If I came in to the garage now and wanted to buy a diesel car, would you not have a duty of care to ask certain questions about my driving distances?’, he replied ‘Yes, I’d ask how far you’re travelling and what kind of driving’.
• I then questioned ‘What if I told you mostly urban driving with approx 7-8 miles on the motorway each morning and night’, to which he said he would not sell me a diesel! He then asked one of his colleagues who gave the same answer. So why were these questions not asked at the point of enquiry or sale by the salesman? Had they been, or had I been informed of the DPF and potential problems, or that I would have to drive out of my way to avoid them, then I categorically would not have purchased a diesel car.
  
• He was unable to assist any further so as I was not happy with this so said I would go away and speak to Citizen’s Advice.
  
  
• I did not have chance to do this during July due to hectic work schedule and holiday toward the end of July.
  
• I did some research on Diesel Particulate Filters and have found that this can be a common problem but appears a lot of people do not know about this and are not made aware by salesmen or garages that this could present a problem.
  
• The question ‘What is a DPF?’ is searched for 49,500 times PER MONTH on google (As of April ’13) which clearly shows this information is being withheld on a huge scale. Source - http://www.whatisadpf.com/
  
  
• Wed 06/08/14 – The exact same problem occurred on the way to work - Service Vehicle Soon warning light came on and again the car went into limp mode. This time I was in the fast lane doing 70mph during rush hour traffic and the car just suddenly dropped to around 45mph! This is extremely dangerous and could very easily have caused an accident. Due to what garage had told me last time, in that I needed to drive for a few junctions at high rev’s to clear the DPF and make the warning light go off. I therefore drove past the junction I would usually take for work, past Stockport and further at high rev’s above 2000 to try and get warning light to go off. This did not work and I was already late for work so had no choice but to turn around and get the car back to work then took the car to garage again next morning.
  
• Thurs 07/08/14 - I left the vehicle with garage in the morning and was later called and informed that it was the same problem, the DPF was blocked. Again the garage agreed to repair free of charge.
  
• Thurs 07/08/14 – I rang Consumer Advice and spoke to a someone who made a note of the details and said that as my agreement is Hire Purchase the responsibility lies with the loan provider, GMAC, to resolve the issue.
  
  
• Fri 08/08/14 – I rang and spoke to GMAC Customer Services who took details of my complaint and said this would be passed on to their complaints department and an investigation and letter would follow.
  
• 13/08/14 – Received attached letter from GMAC. Some notable things from the letter are as follows, a lot of what they mention that should happen, does not happen with my vehicle so there is clearly a fault as the cars warning lights are not functioning as they should
• EML Light should illuminate when the filter needs regeneration – Mine does not come on. I have also questioned this with garage who were not interested. They just said they can’t tell why and that’s that.
• Attachment – Useful Information Regarding Diesel Particulate Filter’s:
• ‘During active regeneration the light should illuminate on the dashboard’ – It doesn’t.
• ‘Sometimes in modern vehicles with five or six gears the engine revolutions are too low to generate sufficient exhaust temperatures’ – What exactly is the point of these gears then?? If they are detrimental to the cars performance then they should not exist. The ridiculousness of all this is that the manufacturers have taken a fuel efficient vehicle and made it un-efficient as it has to be driven at higher rev’s burning more fuel!
• Page from vehicle manual – Driving and operating, page 159:
• ‘If the cleaning of the filter is required and if previous driving conditions did not enable automatic cleaning, it will be indicated by control indicator …’ This light / control indicator has never come on, when I start the engine it lights up briefly along with all other warning lights but it has never actively come on. ‘Simultaneously Diesel partic. Filter is full continue driving appears in the Driver Information Centre’ – It doesn’t!
• ‘Indicator … Illuminates when diesel particle filter is full. Start cleaning process as soon as possible’ This light does not come on!
• ‘… Flashes and a warning chime sounds several times when diesel particle filter has reached the maximum filling level. Start cleaning process immediately to avoid damage to the engine.’ Again, this doesn’t happen. All I get is Service Vehicle Soon by which time it is too late and the vehicle requires a forced regeneration by the garage.
• They provided my with the option to trade in vehicle. Settlement statement provided, amount approx. £9000 but why should I? Why should I have to trade in the vehicle and lose out for something that is not my fault?
  
• 22/08/14 – Spoke again to Consumer Advice. Informed me my contract is with the finance company, GMAC, so responsibility lies with them under the Supply of Goods Implied Terms Act 1973
  
• 22/08/14 – Spoke to Ombudsman who have requested further information which is basically above

Bantex_2

In what way was is mis sold?

burlington6

What outcome do you want?

poppasmurf_bewdley

I won't even attempt to wade through everything you've written, but from a quick glance:

You bought the car in October last year, and in July this year - nine months later - you complain about it not being suitable?

A regular five mile motorway journey twice a day should be sufficient to keep a DPF clear. I've had one for three years, do mostly short journeys, and very rarely use motorways, but had no problems whatsoever with my DPF (Ford Mondeo Mk4).

Johnmcl7

What car is this and what engine does it have? The main problem as you've mentioned further on is that there should be a dpf light coming on to tell you the car has not been able to passively regenerate the filter and you need to drive at higher revs to actively regenerate the filter and allow it to clear itself. The symptoms you have described should only be happening if the active regeneration has failed and it needs the garage to do a forced regeneration to clear the filter or some component of the dpf system has failed. On my previous car (a Skoda Octavia with the two litre diesel vw engine) and it was going into limp home mode because of a failing pressure sensor which was a common failure on that engine.

The suitability of a diesel car for your use is a secondary issue, it's not a good pattern for a dpf but newer diesel engines are better at regenerating the filter and the frequent short drives should mean yyou have to actively regenerate the filter more often.

BJV

DPF filters have been a problem for years and they do become blocked. In another life I ran a dealership and it got to the point that we had an unsaid rule that we would not sell them to anyone who was doing short trips.


A blast up and down the motorway normally clears them out but!!!! I think you may struggle. The only reason being that lots of manufacture's now use DPF to varying degrees of success. Some are less of a problem but the manufacture's will not publically admit that there is a problem.

Nodding_Donkey

I'm really interested in which Ombudsman you've complained to.

Foxy-Stoat_3

Stopped reading after the first bullet point.

Have you read the manual that mentions the DPF?

force_ten

you bought the wrong car you should have gone for a petrol engine variant

this is not the first post on this and it certainly wont be the last complaining about a car with a dpf being mis sold

the way your post reads you picked the car out and spoke to the dealer twice before sealing the deal, if that is the case then it is your own fault that you have a car that is not suitable for your needs

when you go to the supermarket and pick up a loaf of bread does the checkout operator ask if you have a wheat allergy and are you gluten intolerant or do you have a nut allergy?

the answer to that is no so if you pick out a car why would you expect salesman to check that the car is suitable for your style of driving

mchale

OP, maybe your thread title should be:

help- I bought a car without research.

Goonie

Wow, I remember when MSE used to be a friendly helpful forum. Shame it's been taken over by people who would rather post a sarcastic comment than try to be of any help