Scottish independence

ColdIron

justjohn wrote: »

Well I was undecided
Then a NO
Now I am coming over to a YES

Bet the pollsters love you

It's also one of the reasons I put little store in the polls and suspect that the final result on Friday won't be as close as they suggest

scott_lithgows

InvestInPoker wrote: »

Patriotism is a great thing as it being proud of ones country. However Nationalism sadly exists by encouraging hatred of others and has led to some of the worst examples of countries and behaviour in history. What the SNP are peddling is hatred of their chosen enemies (mostly the English but substitute for Westminster/Tories/Insert hate figure here) and encouraging some vile behaviour as well as a terrible future for Scotland.

With Devo max for NO vote Scotland will get complete home rule coupled with the economic certainty of the UK and all the guarantees that go with that. Anyone who sits and thinks about this instead of getting spun by the SNP's hate figures lies and bullying will realise there is no option but a NO vote for a fantastic future for SCOTLAND

How much devo max are we getting though?
If it means the oil money going to Edinburgh then it doesn't matter what it says on your passport.
Scotland can build it,s promised land and pull the North of England with us.
Otherwise the money ends up down the south east building 15billion pound railway lines whilst the north of England gets little.

scott_lithgows

robin61 wrote: »

If they do vote yes ( I think they probably will). I have no doubt that they will still continue to blame Westminster for their ills. They will obviously not come out of the negotiations on assets and liabilities with everything they want so Salmond will keep pulling the victim card which he is so adept at.

For me I would just about rather we keep the union intact as it will be bad for R of UK in terms of the uncertainty it will create just when the economy is showing signs of recovering from the mess Labour left behind them.

However with a yes vote there will be a silver lining for me anyway. There will be 60 or so less Socialist Labour, SNP and Lib Dem MP's and the West Lothian question will be addressed. I really believe that even in the event of a no vote this is just the start and we will be here again in a few years so why not just get it over with now ? I also don't like this Devo Max idea. We should not be effectively bribing the Scots to stay in the Union. If they want to stay then fine but it should be under the same terms as the rest of us.

Most Scots don't believe we should be voting on English matters.

InvestInPoker

There are no substantial answers to the (real) economic future of Scotland in the event of a vote for independence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB7XMxCkorI

With a NO vote and devo max we have full control of everything except foreign policy of the UK and interest rates etc. We also have all the guarantees and security of the UK.

CLAPTON

scott_lithgows wrote: »

How much devo max are we getting though?
If it means the oil money going to Edinburgh then it doesn't matter what it says on your passport.
Scotland can build it,s promised land and pull the North of England with us.
Otherwise the money ends up down the south east building 15billion pound railway lines whilst the north of England gets little.

do you have facts and figures to show the spending available to Scots per capita is lower than to the Welsh, Irish or the English?

jimjames

InvestInPoker wrote: »

With a NO vote and devo max we have full control of everything except foreign policy of the UK and interest rates etc. We also have all the guarantees and security of the UK.

I think that's the critical part. Why would Scots really want to have their own embassies across the world? It seems a bit excessive. Surely devo max gives all that is really required but without the bits of statehood that would be a big overhead for a small country.

There was a very good (IMO) piece in the Scotsman summing up the debate

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-can-be-changed-for-better-with-a-no-vote-1-3541041

The Yes campaign’s strongest argument for independence is also its simplest – that Scotland should be run by the people who live here. On Thursday, many Scots will vote Yes for this reason, and for this reason alone.

It is an honourable view. It is not necessarily blind to the potential problems of independence, but sees them as secondary to the principle of sovereignty.

That truth is that very few nations exercise full control over their own affairs. The 19th century idea of the nation state is dead and gone.

robin61

scott_lithgows wrote: »

How much devo max are we getting though?
If it means the oil money going to Edinburgh then it doesn't matter what it says on your passport.
Scotland can build it,s promised land and pull the North of England with us.
Otherwise the money ends up down the south east building 15billion pound railway lines whilst the north of England gets little.

You will not be taking the North of England anywhere. They have more sense.

robin61

scott_lithgows wrote: »

Most Scots don't believe we should be voting on English matters.

They are quite right they shouldn't. Labour and the Lib Dems mighty take a bit of convincing though. If it wasn't for Scottish Labour votes we would not have had a coalition.

mollycat

justjohn wrote: »

lol I just have too figure out who is bending the truth the most lol

It's not a laugh mate!!

We're standing on the brink of financial meltdown due to vast numbers of people being unable to see through flimsy propaganda by the YES campaign.

If the sort of austerity that follows any YES vote was imposed on us by a government of any hue, we'd quite rightly be doing our nuts over it; crazy thing is dozens of people who can't see beyond some kind of "oppression" by the rest of the uk are about to VOLUNTEER for it.

Crazy! Can't believe the times we're living in.

rosy

I fear for us in Scotland if it's a Yes on Thursday. Their campaign has undoubtably been the better conceived and executed - if your aim is to get your voter numbers up no matter what it takes. It is certainly not the true grassroots campaign it purports to be. It has all been carefully orchestrated from the top down, deliberately targeting and whipping up emotion in the disaffected and vulnerable by using a pyramid-type selling of the vision ( note, not of the policies, of which there are none). These are the very people YES are supposedly fighting for and who will suffer disproportionately in the financial fallout if NO loses on Thursday.
Yesterday I witnessed a boy of 8 or 9 in the street waving a YES balloon in a woman's face and challenging her on her voting intentions. When she said she was a NO and walked away, he shouted after her "What are you voting No for? You're stupid, you're supposed to be Scottish!" The essence for me of the Yes campaign.
It is so, so sad.