Just need to check ....

Coupon-mad

I would display a small bright/clearly typed notice in the windscreen instead, when parked there, saying something like:


My vehicle is not unauthorised nor abandoned nor for sale nor unroadworthy, and nor is it in breach of any conditions of my lease.
The registered keeper if this car:
- is a resident of xxxxx xxxxxxx and this vehicle has valid tax and MOT.
- has informed the Management Company that they have chosen to opt out of the 'permit scheme'.
- refuses to recognise 'Park Direct' or any similar permit scheme and will appeal any PCN issued on the usual appeal points
- is fully aware of POPLA and the fact that you make no loss in a car park where the permits are free.
TAKE FORMAL NOTE
If an agent or employee of Park Direct decides to take a photograph of my car and/or issue a 'PCN' having read this Notice, Park Direct agrees to pay consideration since you will be contractually liable for my costs and expenses in appealing/contesting/defending the charge you may decide to pursue. My costs will be charged at the court rate of £18 per hour and I expect them to exceed the sum of £100 per PCN.


Then be aware you will be antagonising them so you must be on the ball and ready to appeal as keeper every time you get a NTK. Or you could ring the changes sometimes and appeal as keeper (using the template in the newbies thread) around day 23 after the Notice to Driver, in order to 'time them out' from ever issuing any NTK. If you try that approach, you can then win POPLA cases if you don't appeal to POPLA till 'day 57' or later...as long as you appeal within the POPLA deadline too of course - as discussed on other threads. You'd have to point out to POPLA clearly, why the keeper can't be held liable in the absence of any NTK - I think the most recent POPLA appeal spelling that argument out was on Spoooky's thread about Ethical Group.

I-LOV-MONEY

Thanks C-M. However, if I put up 'my' notice, then I may as well put up the official parking permit ? (If I don't renew my tax by the end of the month I will be illegal anyway )

Trying to understand the final paragraph. Can I just clarify that if I get a ticket from them, appeal around day 23 of the notice. Can they not issue a NTK after x days?

Would they still reject my appeal and send me POPLA number anyway? Then I appeal to POPLA on day 57 of the original ticket?

Do POPLA care that I haven't received a NTK?

Coupon-mad

Yes...you may as well put up a permit - or not, it's your choice which! Depends if you want to wind them in and wind them up...

Even if you do display a permit you can beat them at POPLA every time they find some excuse to issue a PCN for 'tread being on the cracks in the pavement'!

My point is, when people appeal before the NTK is issued, no NTK is ever issued by any PPC. And that means they can't have keeper liability. The reason for stringing it out and appealing so it arrives within days of the 28 day deadline (after the windscreen PCN but not too early) is that by the time you get a rejection & POPLA code you can then 'time' the POPLA appeal like in spoooky's thread. 57 days has gone so the PPC is stuffed, if the appeal never said who was driving and was only from the keeper.

PPCs fail the second and the third condition in schedule 4 for keeper liability by NOT issuing NTKs. Read it - read spooky's thread too - and see! There is no excuse for not issuing a NTK, not even 'but we replied to an appeal'. The Act is clear that the NTD has to be followed in time, by the NTK for 'keeper liability'.

It is a slam dunk winning scenario.

I-LOV-MONEY

Oh well with a few minutes to go the PPC arrangements come into effect tomorrow. There are no notices from the PPC. There are some notes tied to lampposts this evening (!) by the Property Management Company saying that it takes effect from 11 September.

The note refers to permits and it gives the name of the Property Manager, but does not say apply to him for permits.

I understand from one of my neighbours that they are (kindly!) giving 10 days [SIZE=-1][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]leniency[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] to residents. Wouldn't it be a hoot if the PPC came down overnight and ticketed all the cars without permits (I suspect the majority!) !![/FONT]
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Herzlos

Coupon-mad wrote: »

My point is, when people appeal before the NTK is issued, no NTK is ever issued by any PPC. And that means they can't have keeper liability. The reason for stringing it out and appealing so it arrives within days of the 28 day deadline (after the windscreen PCN but not too early) is that by the time you get a rejection & POPLA code you can then 'time' the POPLA appeal like in spoooky's thread. 57 days has gone so the PPC is stuffed, if the appeal never said who was driving and was only from the keeper.

But surely if the registered keeper replies to the Notice to Driver, the keeper is indicating that they were notified anyway? I don't know if that means they can worm out of the POFA requirements though, but it seems riskier than just waiting for the (likely non-compliant) NTK and going down the usual GPEOL route?

bazster

C-M's point is that it is not sufficient for the keeper to be notified by some random means (e.g. being passed the NtD), the keeper must be notified with a Schedule 4-compliant Notice to Keeper.

I-LOV-MONEY

Well having just gone down the road I saw 4 permits out of about 40 vehicles parked. As I was driving down it was annoying that a lot of the cars were parked inwards so not easy to check (nor for the PPC !).

The paper notices tied around lampposts start half way down the road (the plastic folders that the notices are inside may come in useful ;-) ).

The PPC have not put up any signs yet (I presume somebody has told them that they have the contract !!).

Coupon-mad

Herzlos wrote: »

But surely if the registered keeper replies to the Notice to Driver, the keeper is indicating that they were notified anyway? I don't know if that means they can worm out of the POFA requirements though, but it seems riskier than just waiting for the (likely non-compliant) NTK and going down the usual GPEOL route?

Have a look at schedule 4. Keeper liability applies under certain conditions, and with a windscreen NTD, the NTK must follow. There's no excuses for the PPC, not even if the keeper has appealed. It's not exactly rocket science and is the same as with a Council PCN where they HAVE to send an NTO anyway, but the BPA haven't got their heads around it yet. I am sure they will have now I have mentioned it loads of times on here recently. They have spies and so do PPCs, they employ people to read this forum.

Coupon-mad

I-LOV-MONEY wrote: »

Well having just gone down the road I saw 4 permits out of about 40 vehicles parked. As I was driving down it was annoying that a lot of the cars were parked inwards so not easy to check (nor for the PPC !).

The paper notices tied around lampposts start half way down the road (the plastic folders that the notices are inside may come in useful ;-) ).

The PPC have not put up any signs yet (I presume somebody has told them that they have the contract !!).

Print out warning flyers and put them under all the windscreen wipers on a non-rainy morning, to do your bit for your neighbours this week. Re-flyer next week if you can be bothered, and include this forum's URL or the sticky thread link re appeals.

I-LOV-MONEY

Thanks C-M. I almost feel like leaving people to solve their own problems. Actually it would be easier to just put a note under any car that I see with a ticket on. However, I have just had an e-mail from the Property Manager.

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your email[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I was on (this road) till about 7pm last night issuing permits to those who hadn’t applied[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the cover letter sent to those who applied, I advised that the scheme will commence on 11th Sept [/FONT][FONT=&quot]followed by a 10 day grace period[/FONT][FONT=&quot]to get users familiar with the system and those who were yet to apply to get their own permits. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My contractors have delayed on signage and the grace period has given me a buffer to get them in place as a result I have put up temporary signs pending delivery of the permanent ones.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A total of 55 Permits have been issued and in my last communication with you I advised that you can contact me with your vehicle details to enable me to issue you with a permit.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Please note that this scheme is being extended to (next road) parking bays .[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The contractor carrying out works to the street lights have identified more and extensive works as a result this has had an impact on the original cost and we have now sent these findings to our consultants to draw up a new works specification to enable us to issue tenders to other contractors to compete for this to ensuring we get a value for money service. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Therefore we are going ahead with parking control but will relax it once works re-commences and on completion parking control will resume[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I would again like to use this opportunity to encourage you to forward your vehicle details to enable me to issue a parking permit to you[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Many thanks

A few comments. I didn't see him last night (not that I would know who to look for!).

Just before lunchtime, I walked along the length of the road. He has told me that he manages 107 properties on the road, this is a mixture of houses and flats. Of approximately 70+ vehicles parked, 7 had permits !! Obviously it will increase as residents return home from work, and perhaps get their permits in the post, but he has a long way to go !

Those that haven't applied won't know about the grace period as he has only written to those that have applied !

If he was issuing permits to those that hadn't applied (how did he know they weren't visitors?), and why didn't I get one?! (Okay my car wasn't there, as I was out at that time, but my wife's car was there - but she wasn't in either!).

Wonder why they need to relax the controls when they start digging up the road? Maybe less space to park, but it doesn't affect anybody's right to park where they can find a space.

With no signage at all at the beginning of the street, visitors will not know it is controlled until after they have parked and read the notice on the lampposts.

Oh well !!
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