The Mail gets dirty

Shielder

Umkomaas, exactly. What our dear LT seems to be forgetting is that the vast majority of these PCNs are for 'overstays' in a free car park.

{Disclaimer: I have only 'overstayed' once and that was for 18 minutes over in a 3 hour free car park. The letter chain was entertaining, but utterly futile and before POFA 2012.}

Anyway, how can overstaying by any number of hours in a free car park cost the landowner £100? Or £50 if paid within 14 days?

Where is the contractual loss incurred? How are the 'damages' calculated? What goods/services are the PPC supplying that have caused them to incur a loss from which the 'damages' amount can be calculated?

Operational costs, staff, equipment, expenses etc are not admissible as part of the Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss (the damages figure referred to above). So I ask again, where is the 'loss' that incurs the amount demanded on the PCN?

Andy

P.S. I also disagree with hospital parking charges for the sick and their families. But if they have to be there, it is easy to impliment an exit barrier system without all of the idiocy advocated by LT.

P.P.S. I can't believe I'm giving the troll the oxygen it needs to survive. After saying not to feed the troll, I'm feeding it. AAAGGGHHHH!!!!!

Umkomaas

bazster wrote: »

Please stop feeding the troll, it's clearly getting off on it.

I know, I know!

Already wasted a couple of minutes of my life getting it from under its bridge. Last from me, other than to give it a quick squirt:

Guys_Dad

I don't agree that londonTiger is a troll, although I don't agree with most of his posts on this thread. You can't simply label someone as a troll because they have a different view.

It is undeniable that many hospitals have parking problems and there are sufficiently numbers of selfish people that would use valuable spaces if they could get away with it.

Equally, I recognise the scenario highlighted in post #61 where some motorists would park all day for nothing in business car parks and s*d the retailer trying to run a business.

In all such cases, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Where it all falls apart, is when PPCs are appointed on the sort of contracts that they have - no charge to client, make as much as you can by bringing in constraining t&cs with swingeing penalties that are applied even when the cases for mitigation stare them in the face.

So, I think we should engage in sensible debate with people who may hold views from another angle and not be as blind/deaf and unbending as the PPCs who we hold in such contempt. Reasonable arguments and alternative solutions just might make them see our points.

Daps

LT - Any reason why people would park at a hospital unless they were patients, staff or visiting patients there?

Also my heart bleeds for the poor multiple property owner who posted earlier in the thread about having to, god forbid, park on the street when the visitor spaces at one of his/her numerous properties are all taken.


Was there really such a problem with people leaving their cars in supermarket car parks all day? Or with service stations running out of car parking space due to people moving in there or something? Or is the whole PPC thing one big scam to try and rip money out of motorists' pockets?

I know which one I see as more likely.

Shielder

Unfortunately, a reasonable debate is not forthcoming from LT, which is why (s)he has been labelled a troll.

I don't think we are arguing for no parking management, rather, we are arguing against the excessive invoice amounts demanded by the PPCs. If they could show just cause for the amounts requested, then we may be slightly more amenable to payment. As it is, there is no legal justification for the invoices, and this is where the system falls down.

If there is a parking issue on private land, then it is the landowner that has to pursue individuals for trespass (I think) rather than putting in place these PPCs. That way, the parking can be managed under criminal law, not contract law.

How that would go in court is another matter, since allowing someone on your land in the first place negates the trespass argument completely I think. IANAL and YMMV.

Andy

bazster

I give up, if you are going to keep feeding it I'll go find something more useful to do.

Shielder

Sorry. :embarasse

The_Deep

Also my heart bleeds for the poor multiple property owner who posted earlier in the thread about having to, god forbid, park on the street when the visitor spaces at one of his/her numerous properties are all taken.

That is the trouble with internet fora, they are full of envious people.

londonTiger

Daps wrote: »

LT - Any reason why people would park at a hospital unless they were patients, staff or visiting patients there?

Also my heart bleeds for the poor multiple property owner who posted earlier in the thread about having to, god forbid, park on the street when the visitor spaces at one of his/her numerous properties are all taken.


Was there really such a problem with people leaving their cars in supermarket car parks all day? Or with service stations running out of car parking space due to people moving in there or something? Or is the whole PPC thing one big scam to try and rip money out of motorists' pockets?

I know which one I see as more likely.

1. very likely in London. People will find any "hidden gem" parking spot and abuse it. I remember a radio presenter at the LBC unashamedly saying he used to get annual membership to the London Zoo because part of the package was free parking. So he'd enjoy thje zoo a couple times a year and use it as a car park for commuting every day.

he only mentioned it because the rules changed because of his "abuse"

People will do that to a hospital car park if they could get away with it. London hospital is just outside the congestion zone and people would gladly just park there and then take the bus to work if it was free parking all day.

halibut2209

Then as mentioned before, the solution is "pay as you leave" with barriers. Works brilliantly at my local hospital

Unlawful penalties are not the answer. As it stands, there is no intent to manage car parking as the only way these companies make money is by ticketing people.