EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change

RandomCurve

ulaggy wrote: »

If I went straight to SCC now, what do you reckon my chances are? I know there are no guarantees and if it went pear-shaped, I wouldn't blame you!

My assessment:


If a the straight price rise in May 2014 I think only 50/50.


On T&Cs only - This is a tough one as a straight argument 95% success rate (I never say 100%), BUT a lot depends on how the court views the arguments around the notification not being to a standard that complies with the Unfair Trading Regulations - I'm sure we are firm ground here, but I will move the odds down to 80%


On the refund of previous price rises - 95% chance of success the old price variation is clearly not compliant with the UTCCRs


What I have seen in other cases (O2 and EE) is the legal teams spend MORE time in the defence trying to persuade the courts to have the case "struck out" (I.e. don't even let it go to court) on Technicalities rather than answering the substantive points - to date the court has always accepted the cases (3 that I am aware of), but we have not had decisions in any of them yet - and the Companies still have time to give in and just settle "out of court".

Mikmonken

Do EE have any concept of when to give up a fight from a financial standing?

I've raised circa £600 worth of CISAS complaints and have £660 outstanding if I was to terminate now.

EE emailed me the other day referring me to CISAS for a 3rd case and offered £2.50 compensation for my inconvenience. By my reckoning if they don't cancel my account before my third complaint the rest of my contract will be operating at a loss once I put in a third claim.

Reason I bring this up is that if you go to SCC and you go to mediation EE may well settle up front, but you might only get back what you've spent in terms of the £30 court fee.

It strikes me EE don't take account severance costs into account though given some of the cases they've referred to CISAS

OriolaW

This was the response I got

>
> Thank you for your email dated 22 August 2014, received in the Executive Office, I have been asked to respond on behalf of EE.
>
> I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent increase to our prices and some of our services. As a company we are committed to investing significantly in our network and work hard to give the best value for our service, we have in this instance tried to keep these increases to a minimum. However due to rising business costs linked to inflation we have had to revaluate our pricing structure.
>
> In this instance, the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7% and compliant with the Terms and Conditions of your contract. Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract. Please refer to clause 3.7 in your Terms and Conditions.
>
> Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.
>
>
>
> Yours sincerely

ulaggy

Mikmonken wrote: »

Do EE have any concept of when to give up a fight from a financial standing?

I've raised circa £600 worth of CISAS complaints and have £660 outstanding if I was to terminate now.

EE emailed me the other day referring me to CISAS for a 3rd case and offered £2.50 compensation for my inconvenience. By my reckoning if they don't cancel my account before my third complaint the rest of my contract will be operating at a loss once I put in a third claim.

Reason I bring this up is that if you go to SCC and you go to mediation EE may well settle up front, but you might only get back what you've spent in terms of the £30 court fee.

It strikes me EE don't take account severance costs into account though given some of the cases they've referred to CISAS

If I go SCC route, I wouldn't settle for just account termination - I can give me 1 month notice on 21st October so there wouldn't be much benefit for me.

I'd only settle if I got the early termination and at least a few months refund, if not from April when the battle begun!

RandomCurve

Mikmonken wrote: »

Do EE have any concept of when to give up a fight from a financial standing?

I've raised circa £600 worth of CISAS complaints and have £660 outstanding if I was to terminate now.

EE emailed me the other day referring me to CISAS for a 3rd case and offered £2.50 compensation for my inconvenience. By my reckoning if they don't cancel my account before my third complaint the rest of my contract will be operating at a loss once I put in a third claim.

Reason I bring this up is that if you go to SCC and you go to mediation EE may well settle up front, but you might only get back what you've spent in terms of the £30 court fee.

It strikes me EE don't take account severance costs into account though given some of the cases they've referred to CISAS

If EE "settle out of Court" they pay the whole of what you were asking - which in my case included the £35 court fee, costs of paper and ink and interest on the money (price rise and my costs). They won't pay any compensation because they know the SCC does not have the power to award any.

RandomCurve

OriolaW wrote: »

This was the response I got

Thank you for your email dated 22 August 2014, received in the Executive Office, I have been asked to respond on behalf of EE.
>
> I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent increase to our prices and some of our services. As a company we are committed to investing significantly in our network and work hard to give the best value for our service, we have in this instance tried to keep these increases to a minimum. However due to rising business costs linked to inflation we have had to revaluate our pricing structure.
>
> In this instance, the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7% and compliant with the Terms and Conditions of your contract. Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract. Please refer to clause 3.7 in your Terms and Conditions.
>
> Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.
>
>
>
> Yours sincerely

EE back to their old tricks of not answering the question!


Just email back something along the lines of:


"Dear X,

Thank you for your email dated X, however you appear to have ignored the contents of my email, which was not about the price rise of May 2014, but rather is in connection with ALL previous price rises and the change in T&Cs effective March 2014 for which EE never provided the correct notification.

I have attached my original email and trust that once you have fully digested the contents you will provide the penalty free termination and the refunds as requested.

Regards"

diamonds

If you go SCC sue both EE and Ofcom for breaching EU Telecom Directive posted before. EU Member States internal legislation/regulators cannot weaken a EU Directive only strengthen it or it is a criminal act.


Everyone affected by mid contract rises by their telecom company from the EU Directive passing over a decade ago should be getting there MP and Police involved by Ofcom's Chief Executive's and Country Directors (the 4 UK countries) not enforcing the EU Directive on its telecom licence holders via a MP and submitting it to http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/


Also contacting your local police force with your MP in England and Wales and making a criminal conduct complaint against Ofcom's Chief Executive under the Misconduct in Public Office legislation http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_public_office/

Ofcom Rhodri Williams, Director - Wales [EMAIL="rhodri.williams@ofcom.org.uk"]rhodri.williams@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
2 Caspian Point Caspian Way CARDIFF CF10 4DQ




Graham Howell Director England & UK Chief Executive [EMAIL="graham.howell@Ofcom.org.uk"]graham.howell@Ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
Ofcom England
Riverside House
2a Southwark Bridge Road
London
SE1 9HA




Mr Howell " A qualified solicitor, Graham has also held senior positions within the Saatchi and Saatchi group and London Weekend Television.


Interesting thing is Mr Howell 'As Secretary to the Corporation Graham manages Ofcom's Secretariat Records Management and Compliance teams, responsible for ensuring compliance with best-practice in corporate governance and administrative law"


So as legal professional specialising in Administrative Law for Ofcom HE KNOWS he has broken EU Telecom Directives over a decade and introduced 'guidance' for his licence holders in an 2014 to allow them to ignore EU Telecom directives. A long term CRIMINAL in public office. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/how-ofcom-is-run/nations-and-regions/ofcom-in-england/the-team/




SCOTLAND
Also in Scotland under common law it is a criminal offence for any public body employee to wilfully neglect their duty. The crime prosecuted would be 'breach of duty' I cant find it on Crown & Procurator Fiscal Office Scotland website (http://www.crownoffice.gov.uk/)
so I'll quote:


"it is a crime at common law for a public official, a person entrusted with an official position of trust, wilfully to neglect his duty, even where no question of danger to the public or to any person is involved"


Scottish Criminal Law, Third Edition, Vol 2, Chapter 44.
republished August 2010, Author: Sir Gerald H Gordon.


Vicki Nash, Director, Ofcom Scotland
39 St Vincent Place
Glasgow
G1 2ER



In Scotland, England and Wales Misconduct in Public Office or 'breach of duty' is punishable with unlimited prison sentencing, for all UK country Directors and Ofcom UK Chief Executive.




Northern Ireland, (someone else hopefully knows legislation)
[EMAIL="Jonathan.rose@ofcom.org.uk"]Jonathan.rose@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]

Jonathan Rose, Director Ofcom Northern Ireland


2nd Floor Landmark House
5 Cromac Quay
The Gasworks
Ormeau Road
Belfast

g6jns_2

diamonds wrote: »

If you go SCC sue both EE and Ofcom for breaching EU Telecom Directive posted before. EU Member States internal legislation/regulators cannot weaken a EU Directive only strengthen it or it is a criminal act.


Everyone affected by mid contract rises by their telecom company from the EU Directive passing over a decade ago should be getting there MP and Police involved by Ofcom's successive Chief Executive's and Country Directors (the 4 UK countries) not enforcing the EU Directive on its telecom licence holders via a MP and submitting it to http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/


Also contacting your local police force with your MP in England and Wales and making a criminal conduct complaint against Ofcom's Chief Executive under the Misconduct in Public Office legislation http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/misconduct_in_public_office/




Also in Scotland under common law it is a criminal offence for any public body employee to wilfully neglect their duty. The crime prosecuted would be 'breach of duty' I cant find it on Crown & Procurator Fiscal Office Scotland website (http://www.crownoffice.gov.uk/)
so I'll quote:


"it is a crime at common law for a public official, a person entrusted with an official position of trust, wilfully to neglect his duty, even where no question of danger to the public or to any person is involved"


Scottish Criminal Law, Third Edition, Vol 2, Chapter 44.
republished August 2010, Author: Sir Gerald H Gordon.


Northern Ireland, someone else hopefully knows.




Remember MP and Police complaints should go to your countries Ofcom office http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/how-ofcom-is-run/nations-and-regions/?a=0

Bad advice. If you go the Small Claims Track forget all the rest. All the other suggestions are very expensive and largely impractical.

diamonds

g6jns wrote: »

Bad advice. If you go the Small Claims Track forget all the rest. All the other suggestions are very expensive and largely impractical.

When did holding a public office employee accountable via a MP and a police force become financially chargeable let alone expensive ?




Clarify your position or stop talking nonsense.

ulaggy

Chill dude, no need to get tetchy! We've all been nice and civil thus far and we'd like to keep it that way!