Friend in denial about spending

Tropez

tabouleh wrote: »

It's a shame he hasn't explored this topic with his [expensive] therapist...but then I guess the therapist will not want to jeopardise his own fee!

That's very unfair.

Pollycat

tabouleh wrote: »

It wasn't an article pointing out his shortcomings; it was an article of a case study of a person who expressed an almost identical problematic upbringing to my friend's and a similar financial relationship developed between the person and his mother. As he is always reflecting on his upbringing and searching for logic in that area and with his therapist, I thought it'd be of interest to him.

Well, he obviously didn't like it as he 'went mad' with you.

It could be that he knows deep down that he is over-spending but - as I and other posters have pointed out already - until he is ready to do something about it, you can't make him.

tabouleh wrote: »

Anyway, ok, yes, I get your point. I should leave it all well alone. I don't have any plans to broach the subj again with him and I will probs tell him to hold back on the daily sms and emails which reiterate these personal topics of his, which are all too intense and, judging from people's posts here, not something I can assist with.

If his conversation and other means of communication are really getting you down you need to tell him to stop - for your own sake.

Anatidaephobia

I have a friend who spends far more than she earns on things she doesn't need then constantly moans about being broke, so I can empathise with how frustrating it can be. She was a little different to your friend in that she would sometimes acknowledge money she shouldn't have spent but she was still in denial and always had a reason that she thought justified it. I used to comment on her expenditure (when she directly asked me about money or about the things she'd spent it on) but she would just say "oh I know, I shouldn't have bought it but I had to because of X, Y or Z and I won't do it again" and then she'd go off and do it again the next day anyway.

I have since learnt that she is not willing to listen to my advice nor is she asking for it (for the most part), she just wants a rant and she wants my sympathy because she is broke. I let her rant and I say "uh huh" or nod along. I don't sympathise but the truth is I don't think she even notices because she's too wrapped up in herself.

Awhile ago, she came into some money and told me (without me asking) that she was going to use it to pay off all her debts and to start a savings account with the remainder. The following week she went to a designer store and bought three handbags - one for herself, one a gift, and one as a "spare - just in case" (in case of what, I don't know) - and she bought two umbrellas worth £50 each. There's no money left now and she is still complaining about her debt. I don't comment. I can't make her change. It's her life, it's her responsibility, I've tried to gently help her in the past but if she doesn't want my help then there's nothing I can do.

ETA - Definitely don't lend your friend money though. Just don't get involved in his finances in any way.

tabouleh

BigAunty wrote: »

I'm with Getmore4less on this - don't give advice and never lend money.

A friend expects an accomplice in all their decisions, not a critic, so advice (even when sought) that differs from their world view is usually unwanted.

You didn't talk them into overspending so you can't talk them out of it.

Only they can get a light bulb moment which comes from within, you can't inspire them to change, they must come to the conclusion that they need to change themselves and perhaps they need to much further in debt with no further access to credit and being hassled by debt collectors or with no further assistance forthcoming from their folks before the penny drops.

I lost a 20 year strong friendship when I diplomatically challenged a friend for scrounging off me, her circle of friends and relatives, who was mired in debt for lifestyle reasons and got in the entrenched habit of calling favours on each of us with sob stories.

I'm kidding you not, one person would be paying for a broken window to be repaired, another treating her to a night out, someone would fit a new kitchen for free, another install a new bathroom, another frend would be under the bonnet of her car, another would be investigating PC issues, her family would be paying off her phone and council tax debts, someone else updating her CV, someone else fixing up her bike and I'd be up a ladder changing her lightbulbs.

I asked why she booked an expensive holiday after telling me she was worried about her flat being repossessed. She said she couldn't get a lodger in to help pay the bills until her spare room was better furnished and decorated (even though she had no problem securing lodgers with it in its current condition). I paid for it to be professionally decorated, gave her curtains, other people donated furniture and months later, despite her alleged mortgage arrears, four months later she was still coming up with excuses why she hadn't got a lodger.

I thought perhaps her spending was caused by being spoilt as a child through being the youngest and having a minor disability, that she had a close knit family who would bend over backwards to her so she developed learned helplessness with virtually every aspect of her life, from budgeting through to seemingly being unable to change a lightbulb (literally). Another of my friend wondered if she was somehow depressed, hence spending to try to cheer herself up.

But when I asked her why she was treating herself to a 3 week long-haul holiday when we had all rallied around her because of her alleged poverty, she tellingly replied 'Because it's unmissable'. And then she got aggressive, told sob stories to everyone that I'd been rude to her and, understandably as she knew she could no longer exploit me as the scales had fallen off my eyes about what a user she is, she dropped me as a friend and pointedly snubs me everytime we meet at social events as we share mutual friends.

So you may find with your friend that while you think there is a psychological reason for being a spendthrift, that they have a deeply engrained entitlement to a Sunday supplement lifestyle, that it is their right to have the finest things, that they deserve it. If they see it as their utter right to have a lifestyle far higher in standard than their actual income will allow, no amount of talk or level of debt, will have any influence at all because they love that level of consumerism and they must have it now.

Many of the points you raise here resonate with this situation - revelling in that child-like helplessness, a 'right' to Kardashian-style living, as though it's the norm; holidays.

Thank-you for sharing your experience

trolleyrun

I've helped exactly one friend getting their finances sorted. I did it because I was asked.

I know a lot of people who spend willinilli even though they can't afford it. It frustrates me, but I can't and won't do anything about it - unless they ask for advice. I do find it infuriating when people do stupid stuff with money, but I've learned to hold my tongue.

It is annoying when someone indirectly asks for advice and then ignores your help, but all you can do is to move on. Let your friend make his own mistakes. His parents are bailing him out all the time and he'll never learn until he hits rock bottom (kind of like any addiction, really).

Last year, I heard snidey remarks from colleagues about my car. Yes, it's a decent car which new would have cost a heck of a lot of money. I bought it second hand and got a good deal. You should've seen my colleagues' faces when I said I paid cash for it Chins on floor, as it doesn't occur to them to save up for anything. Silly them. I actually feel sorry for them to be honest.

I understand you want to help your friend but with this one you'll have to bite your tongue, sit on your hands and most importantly : do not lend him a penny.

tabouleh

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Awhile ago, she came into some money and told me (without me asking) that she was going to use it to pay off all her debts and to start a savings account with the remainder. The following week she went to a designer store and bought three handbags - one for herself, one a gift, and one as a "spare - just in case" (in case of what, I don't know) - and she bought two umbrellas worth £50 each.

Spare handbag, lol! This habit must be so common. It's beyond me how people are lured into such expensive tat - I mean, to actually get into debt over those type of items! It must be more common than I imagined this morning when I started this thread, now I read people's stories.

tabouleh

trolleyrun wrote: »

Last year, I heard snidey remarks from colleagues about my car. Yes, it's a decent car which new would have cost a heck of a lot of money. I bought it second hand and got a good deal. You should've seen my colleagues' faces when I said I paid cash for it Chins on floor, as it doesn't occur to them to save up for anything. Silly them. I actually feel sorry for them to be honest.

I understand you want to help your friend but with this one you'll have to bite your tongue, sit on your hands and most importantly : do not lend him a penny.

Good for you buying the car you wanted
That is my mentality absolutely as well - save for something, then buy. Incredible how many people do it the other way round. It may well be the norm for people in their 30s (my age) and younger.

Maybe it just doesn't scare people to be in debt. Maybe it doesn't scare my friend and I am associating the money side with his other problems?

Pollycat

tabouleh wrote: »

Spare handbag, lol! This habit must be so common. It's beyond me how people are lured into such expensive tat - I mean, to actually get into debt over those type of items! It must be more common than I imagined this morning when I started this thread, now I read people's stories.

I think people believe they are entitled to have the latest mobile, TV, handbag NOW instead of saving up for things as we did.

We are comfortably off, retired at age 50 and have already had 7 weeks holiday abroad this year with another 5 weeks booked.
BUT- we have always lived within our means, instead of driving round in Mercs or BMWs, we had Fords etc.

I also think some parents spoil their children so when they have to fend for themselves they get into debt because they have to have things NOW.

DKLS

What are you getting out of this friendship op?

He doesn't seem much of a friend and more of a taking pain snail.