Friend in denial about spending

tabouleh

I have a friend who is in denial about the amount he spends. I would say that I am a thrifty person, so I'm not sure what the 'norm' is, but the fact that he is a single person, earning 3k a month, but has to ring his parents before the end of each month to borrow a few hundred quid before pay day, makes me think this cannot be normal.

We have fallen out in the past over our different attitudes, so I want to avoid that again. I decided that I should leave him to it and not concern myself with that side of his life, but he talks about money a lot, so, as a friend, I have tried to offer some advice, but twice it has gone down like a lead balloon and we nearly fell out again.

When I 'accused' him of being a big spender, he launched into all these excuses and 'mitigating circumstances' about each example I brought up. He was so utterly offended, I wished I hadn't said anything. How can he think this is normal?

I think he has a really skewed view of what spending and luxury means. It is simply living beyond your means; it doesn't have to mean going yachting every wkend(!) He has maxed-out credit cards, but continues to blow money every day on lunches at work, etc.; when we are not talking about money specifically, he mentions things like he's ordered a take-away, he bought such n such, paid for gym membership, upgraded mobile...I'm thinking, er, hello!

I forwarded him a webpage relevant to his psychological troubles from childhood linked to overspending, esp. borrowing off parents. He went mad about it, ranting that he only borrowed from his parents when he was desperate. I wanted to point out the obvious - e.g. a couple of wks ago, he was already planning a holiday when he found out his father's endowment policy had matured! It didn't cross his mind that that is not his money to spend! And even if it were, why would he not clear his debts with it first?

I guess I want to know how others react to their friends' mismanagement of money? Do you just let them get on with it? I feel sorry for his parents. I think they have tried to avoid lending him money, but he then goes for payday loans and gets into more debt and obv they care about him and don't want to see him in more trouble. Right now, I'm having to apologise to him for sending the webpage and 'misunderstanding' his situation; it's either that or fall out again completely. In the recent past, he asked me to lend him 20 quid, but there was no way I would do that. He had said before that he needs 30 every day anyway, so what good would it have done?! I wonder whether it was some kind of test of our friendship. I believe there is this dimension to his asking his parents for money - like a test or a punishment. It's a shame he hasn't explored this topic with his [expensive] therapist...but then I guess the therapist will not want to jeopardise his own fee!

balletshoes

in your case, as you've already tried several times to point it out to him, you have to let it go now. He's not listening to you, as you say, he's in denial.

ciderwithrosie_2

Every time he brings up the subject of money, interrupt him and tell him you're not discussing it as you have differing opinions and fall out. Just keep repeating this. Hopefully, he'll eventually have a lightbulb moment!

danih

As he is in denial, the direct approach isn't working. Don't stress yourself out about this - its beyond your control. Although his spending is clearly disfunctional, at some level it works and makes sense to him. It sounds like he needs a crash (job loss, parents being unable to help, or another financial crisis) to make him face his spending habits and address them.

You would try an indirect approach, just to remind him its not all about the money. It may help you to feel that you are not giving up on trying to help him.
"I've found this great website (money saving expert/gumtree/preloved) that really helped when i was trying to reduce my credit cards / buy / sell household stuff"

Pollycat

You can't make him become money-savvy.

You've tried to talk to him about it but if he's not ready or willing to listen, then there's absolutely nothing more that you can do.

However, as ciderwithrosie says, refuse to get into a discussion with him about financial matters.

If he says he had a take-away or upgraded his mobile or whatever, just say 'Oh, that's nice'.

TBH, I think you sound somewhat interfering.
I would have been bloody furious if you'd sent me a webpage relevant to my psychological troubles from childhood linked to overspending, esp. borrowing off parents.
I think you need to back off.

getmore4less

Keep your nose out and never lend them any money.

Errata

It's a shame he hasn't explored this topic with his [expensive] therapist...but then I guess the therapist will not want to jeopardise his own fee!

Do you sit in on his sessions?

SailorSam

People have to learn for themselves, you can't tell them.
I've got a friend that i've fell out with at the moment 'cos he constantly complains about how much debt he's in, but he shouldn't be if he only thought first. Now i've left it to him.

justme111

It is his business and his family 's what he does or does not with his money. When.he.complaints on.money issues he does not want you to sort them , he wants you.to just.listen ! Offering unsolicited advice is disrespectful. If listening becomes too much or feels as if you.were treated like a damping.ground for negative emotions then you can say "you.know.we.differ on.the issue of money so I would rather not discuss it now ".
I have a friend who used to complaint a lot about consequences of her parenting style and housekeeping style which I disagreed with , that's how we dealt with situation. Now when she starts going off tangent I may.just open my mouth getting ready to say it and she replies "I know I.know " and we both.laugh.

egoode

I don't understand why you feel you need to be so involved in this. You haven't lent him money so it's not like he's in debt to you. He's not asking for your help in sorting it out.

I would understand wanting to help him sort it out if he was your partner and directly impacted your financial affairs as well but you have no financial connection so I think you should stay out of it unless he asks for advice. This is something he and his family need to sort out themselves and you shouldn't be involved unless he asks for help from you.

tabouleh

Errata wrote: »

Do you sit in on his sessions?

He talks a lot about his issues growing up (he's 36 now), as well as mentioning his therapist's responses to some things. He has a lot of anger and resent toward his parents. I often think, if they are so awful, why not limit/avoid contact with them altogether? But the fact that he continues to take money off them makes me think he is kind of punishing them, like giving them an ongoing 'fine'.