University parking tickets worry

bazster

Dee140157 wrote: »

I will take the photos down I have linked to, but I can't see which one to take down. I can't see OPs sister's name! Help which post needs to go Bazter?

He's fixed it now so panic over, well done Kayne.

Kanye_West

bazster wrote: »

According to my calculations they have missed the deadline for a POFA 2012-compliant NtK by more than a week, so there is no keeper liability and your sis is off scott free

According to POFA12 the notice must be given 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended. And the specified period of parking ended 28 days after 22/01/14 which was 19/02/14 and then 14 days after that was 05/03/14.

I received the NtK on 27/03/14 so that's 22 days over, right?

bazster

Kanye_West wrote: »

According to POFA12 the notice must be given 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended. And the specified period of parking ended 28 days after 22/01/14 which was 19/02/14 and then 14 days after that was 05/03/14.

I received the NtK on 27/03/14 so that's 22 days over, right?

No, you've mis-read POFA 2012.

For a windscreen ticket (which this was) they must wait 28 days after issuing the Notice to Driver (the windscreen ticket). Then they must issue the Notice to Keeper within the next 28 days. So, the Notice to Keeper must arrive between 28 days and 56 days.

The parking event was 22nd January. Start counting from the 23rd January and you get to 56 days on 18th March. They have helpfully proved that they missed this by a mile by putting "Date this notice is given: 27/03/2014".

The 14 days you quote applies to Notices to Keeper issued when there was no windscreen ticket, so not applicable in your cases.

Kanye_West

bazster wrote: »

No, you've mis-read POFA 2012.

For a windscreen ticket (which this was) they must wait 28 days after issuing the Notice to Driver (the windscreen ticket). Then they must issue the Notice to Keeper within the next 28 days. So, the Notice to Keeper must arrive between 28 days and 56 days.

The parking event was 22nd January. Start counting from the 23rd January and you get to 56 days on 18th March. They have helpfully proved that they missed this by a mile by putting "Date this notice is given: 27/03/2014".

The 14 days you quote applies to Notices to Keeper issued when there was no windscreen ticket, so not applicable in your cases.

Ah, thank you for that. So, the next question is, how am I going to word this to them, seeing as I wont be using the template from the newbie thread?

Kanye_West

UPDATE ON ORIGINAL PCN TICKET:

The parking ticket image I posted at the start of thread was an old one and I hadn't realised how outdated it was. I think since the whole parking system was updated at the start of 2014, they have been plastering new tickets to windscreens with relevant POPLA information.

See: http://imgur.com/LWOhQnk

Dee140157

http://imgur.com/VPacnSx

Coupon-mad

So, what I would do would be for the registered keeper to email the BPA to complain that the Uni of York, who are an AOS member in their own right, have sent letters telling her she's liable for tickets and citing the POFA 2012 when in fact the NTK letters were too late (some way beyond the 56 day deadline for keeper liability). State clearly that she knows that for an AOS member to pretend keeper liability applies when it does not, is a serious breach of the BPA Code of Practice.

She'll need to attach all the letters and if more than one PCN is involved then set out a clear timeline of the date of each NTK and the alleged parking event mentioned in it. Only mention the ones that were late - were they both late? Send it all, attachments etc., by email from HER (new email addy set up in her name) to:

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Everything should come from the keeper, no mention of who was driving nor the PCNs on the windscreen. No need for her to try to explain why she didn't 'appeal' since she doesn't have to, it's not a Council PCN or anything and in any case the deadlines for keeper liability having been missed, renders the letters a nullity.

She doesn't have to even contact the Uni just yet - let the BPA investigate it with them. It's a serious breach.

You should consider putting up info in the Student Union noticeboard, student magazine and around and about, spread the word about this forum, not to ignore PCNs but to appeal them as registered keeper when the first letters arrives (not sooner) and then to use words like the charge is 'not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'. At least tell your friends this so they know!


HTH

bazster

There are four tickets, right? And four NtK's? So please check the timings on each NtK, in line with the information above.

nigelbb

Dee140157 wrote: »

http://imgur.com/VPacnSx

That is not a valid Notice To Driver therefore any Notice To Keeper cannot be valid either even if delivered within time. Here is the relevant extract from POFA 2012. Spot the omission.

7 (1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2) The notice must:
(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b) inform the driver of the requirement to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and describe those charges, the circumstances in which the requirement arose (including the means by which it was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made those charges payable;
(c) inform the driver that the parking charges relating to the specified period of parking have not been paid in full and specify the total amount of the unpaid parking charges relating to that period, as at a time which is:
(i) specified in the notice; and
(ii) no later than the time specified under paragraph (f);
(d) inform the driver of any discount offered for
prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
8
(e) identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made;
(f) specify the time when the notice is given and the date.
(3) The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under subparagraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices each specifying different parts of a single period of parking).
(4) The notice must be given:
(a) before the vehicle is removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates, and
(b) while the vehicle is stationary, by affixing it to the vehicle or by handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.
(5) In sub-paragraph (2)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes:
(a) any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the driver about the notice or any matter contained in it; and
(b) any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the driver to independent adjudication or arbitration.

bazster

Fails to specify the means by which the requirement to pay charges was brought to the attention of the driver.

Fails to identify the creditor.

Furthermore it remains my opinion that POFA 2012 Schedule 4 draws a distinction between charges and damages, with the latter being applicable (i.e. giving rise to keeper liability) only in cases of trespass i.e. keeper liability cannot arise for damages arising from breach of contract. It's the elephant in the room which hasn't been tested at either PoPLA or in a court.