Middle Lane Hoggers - I hate them!

nobbysn*ts

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

Did you not read the post?
They usually are ... undertaking

Just failing, like they normally do when they drive.

Joe_Horner

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

If there's a short gap that they can undertake in ... you should be in it


(EDIT: and the person in front of you, and the person in front of them, etc etc ... It's people hanging out for too long to overtake "the next thing" that causes all the restrictions)

No you shouldn't.

Do you really believe the best way for a motorway to work is to have everyone weaving in and out of 100 yd gaps between lorries while others are overtaking them?

The highway code used to have a thing in it about "unnecessary lane changes" which aplies just as much as the "stay left".

If I'm doing 65 behind a queue of other cars doing 65 past lorries doing 60 then the minimum gap I should consider pulling into is 4 seconds between the lorries. And that assumes that I'm prepared to drop to 60 myself and probably not get out again for miles.

Any less than that 4 sec gap and my actions cause another road user to change his speed or course (a big HC no-no) because the lorry I'm moving in front of has to slow down to recover his safe gap.

4 seconds at 60mph is roughly 110m, or just over a football pitch. I've known cars try to undertake in gaps far smaller than that. They don't often succeed

sh0597

I can't help but feel a lot of drivers don't know how to drive themselves. They expect cars to dive into a small gap in the left lane to allow them to travel faster than the speed limit.

UsernameAlreadyExists

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No you shouldn't.
Do you really believe the best way for a motorway to work is to have everyone weaving in and out of 100 yd gaps between lorries while others are overtaking them?

I see half mile gaps between lorries and a steady stream of middle lane hogs in most places, clearly you drive on different roads from me.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

The highway code used to have a thing in it about "unnecessary lane changes" which aplies just as much as the "stay left".

"Used to"? That's helpful.
Define "necessary"? Moving out of lane 1 is totally unnecessary because you're going to have to move back into it at some point when you leave the motorway.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

If I'm doing 65 behind a queue of other cars doing 65 past lorries doing 60 then the minimum gap I should consider pulling into is 4 seconds between the lorries. And that assumes that I'm prepared to drop to 60 myself and probably not get out again for miles.

Why would you have to drop to 60? Everyone should be falling in behind you ... unless they're going significantly faster, but then they'd be past soon enough so you can pull out again to overtake the next lorry.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Any less than that 4 sec gap and my actions cause another road user to change his speed or course (a big HC no-no) because the lorry I'm moving in front of has to slow down to recover his safe gap.

if you pull in front of a lorry doing 60 while you're doing 65 ... YOU are going faster and are therefore making the gap again, why would they need to slow down?

Joe_Horner wrote: »

4 seconds at 60mph is roughly 110m, or just over a football pitch. I've known cars try to undertake in gaps far smaller than that. They don't often succeed

Because you jeopardize your own safety by violating your own 2 second gap? You could literally get a bus (or two) in that space Also, I bet some manage to get past with no bother.


If people actually "drove" and didn't behave like mindless sheep then these "queues" would be less likely to exist

boliston

ive heard that you should make a lane change if you are likely to spend 30 or more seconds in that lane at your chosen speed including the requirement to leave a 2 second gap both in front AND behind - any less than 30 seconds and you are changing lanes too often as each lane change in itself carries an element of risk

UsernameAlreadyExists

boliston wrote: »

ive heard that you should make a lane change if you are likely to spend 30 or more seconds in that lane at your chosen speed including the requirement to leave a 2 second gap both in front AND behind - any less than 30 seconds and you are changing lanes too often as each lane change in itself carries an element of risk

Where did you hear that? At the local knitting club?
How can you leave a 2 second gap behind you ?

nobbysn*ts

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

Where did you hear that? At the local knitting club?
How can you leave a 2 second gap behind you ?

Normally by driving for two seconds past the car you overtake, then pulling in. What do you do, consider it a winner if you don't clip the front wing moving back in? Oh, I forget, you don't move back in, everyone has to move over for you, as you're always 'overtaking'.

UsernameAlreadyExists

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Normally by driving for two seconds past the car you overtake, then pulling in. What do you do, consider it a winner if you don't clip the front wing moving back in? Oh, I forget, you don't move back in, everyone has to move over for you, as you're always 'overtaking'.

At least I am not recklessly endangering the lives of old people by trying to force them into incoming traffic like you do.

nobbysn*ts

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

At least I am not recklessly endangering the lives of old people by trying to force them into incoming traffic like you do.

Sorry mate, won't do it to you again.

Joe_Horner

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

I see half mile gaps between lorries and a steady stream of middle lane hogs in most places, clearly you drive on different roads from me.

Quite possibly. My point was that, in at least some cases, the "middle lane hog" is probably just making a different decision to the driver behind about what's a safe gap to pull into.

Given that the driver behind often seems to think it's ok to follow 10 yards from the car ahead, I'd tend to go with the alleged hog in that case

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

"Used to"? That's helpful.
Define "necessary"? Moving out of lane 1 is totally unnecessary because you're going to have to move back into it at some point when you leave the motorway.

Yeah, used to - I can't see it in the current version. They probably removed it to avoid confusing the numpties who think that "keep left when not overtaking" means they should cut across in front of you, almost taking your wing off, only to be moving out again before they've even settled in the lane.

"Necessary" in this case is defined by common sense

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

Why would you have to drop to 60? Everyone should be falling in behind you ... unless they're going significantly faster, but then they'd be past soon enough so you can pull out again to overtake the next lorry.

because, if i drop into a 4 second gap (2 ahead, 2 behind) between 60mph lorries and continue doing 65 I'll have to move out again immediately (see "numpties" above) because my safety gap is now closing. So I have to slow down to 60 to keep that gap.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to people who think it's ok to follow at 10 yards (see "driver behind" above)

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

if you pull in front of a lorry doing 60 while you're doing 65 ... YOU are going faster and are therefore making the gap again, why would they need to slow down?

Because he now has someone in front of him who's about to either drive into the back of a lorry or swerve straight back into the second lane (into the side of the car who was tailgating) if they follow yours suggestions. So he needs to increase the gap ready to avoid that if it happens.

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

Because you jeopardize your own safety by violating your own 2 second gap? You could literally get a bus (or two) in that space Also, I bet some manage to get past with no bother.

You could get 13 Routemasters (the old ones) into that gap. But it's NOT safe to do so. The 2 second recommendation is only an average but, if anything, it's on the short side.

If you put 2 cars into that 110m gap, then the time between them is cut to about a second and a third. 4 cars will cut it to 0.8 seconds. I don't know what sort of fighter pilot reflexes you've got, but most drivers simply won't react to a problem in that time.

UsernameAlreadyExists wrote: »

If people actually "drove" and didn't behave like mindless sheep then these "queues" would be less likely to exist

If people weren't so !!!! sure of their own ability to ignore well established advice and drive with a fag paper between them and the car ahead to try and bully their way past then the queues wouldn't matter