Just needed to be heard for a little while

whitewing

I don't believe in Hell. (Although I do believe there are hellish places on Earth). Hell just seems pointless and demeaning a concept to me.

That said, I don't believe children are born evil either, although I can agree that some developmental problems can start in the womb.

lostinrates

I'm glad its helping Was.

I know some wonderful religious people of many faiths. And great scientists can be believers.

My guess is if there is a god, then a god is more concerned with goodness than controlling and rule following. So trying to get things right and not harm is probably more important than following a rule. Helping people is probably more important than praying. And trying to get more ticks in the good column than crosses in the bad column is probably the aim. I reckon if we do just over equal in life ( ticks and crosses) we've done well. Its so easy to do a little naughty thing.....be a little greedy, take a little more than is due us, not help when we could.......) much easier than getting the big crosses...for things like rape and pillage.;) ) but the little ticks are easy too, and we can try and get those in our lives too, and the thing is, they make life BETTER. Leaving someone smiling is better than nabbing the good parking spot quickly I reckon.

Waves_and_Smiles

In my mothers case from the moment I was born she refused to hold me and insisted that her baby had been replaced by the hospital by a demon. She wasn't allowed to see me for 6 weeks until they got those delusions under control. They came back in various degrees on and off over the years though with me being devils spawn, a changeling, possessed or a demon. In all cases she would wave Bibles at me and fall to her knees praying to God to protect her from me, on other occasions she would hold Bibles to my forehead to get the Devil out and constantly asked me to pray because I was going to Hell.

Until I was 13 I was convinced that I was evil and that God hated me and was reading my thoughts to see what a terrible person I was. That actually had more of a detrimental affect on me than sexual abuse. It was constant emotional terror.

lostinrates

I think had it not been religion with you mother WaS it would have been anything she was 'inspired' by.

The only thing one can say is.....she couldn't help it. But its regretful in the extreme you were exposed to it and not protected, .

whitewing

She really was seriously ill. I guess the hormone fluctuations after birth made things a lot, lot worse. One would hope that nowadays children in similar situations would be monitored a lot more carefully.

I had some odd thoughts about my daughter when my pnd was at its worse - nothing that would cause me to harm her or emotionally abuse her. When I was very tired, I was sometimes hesitant to look in her cot because I half-expected her to be a horror baby or to jump up unexpectedly, even though I know very logically that that wouldn''t happen. I was expecting to be scared and that made me jumpy. It took a look of mental processing to reduce this. The worse thing is that you can't tell anyone because you want help but you don't want the baby taken away.

It wouldn't be logical to me that God hated you - you were a child. What is not logical to me is that God exists but lets you endure what you went through.

It is more logical to me that your mum was seriously ill but that she also bears responsibility for the choices she made. I think that mental illness makes it harder to make the right decisions but it doesn't stop one from making the right decisions.

Waves_and_Smiles

I agree with you, religion just happened to be her focus. she came from a family of atheists as was my dad but she started attending a catholic church as a child because her friends did and developed a strong religious belief. This then got very distorted when she became ill. I can see it for it was now but the scars are still there, call it conditioning if you like. I was told that I was evil and that God hated so often that I came to believe it and emotionally it's hard to let go of that.

On a brighter note though, I am reconsidering the prayers. Perhaps I don't need to panic and immediately think how horrid I am if people say that they will pray for me. Perhaps I can see it as similar to wishing me well and keeping me in their thoughts and not a threat. I am working on it.

Waves_and_Smiles

As far as blaming my mother goes it's a difficult one for me. I know that she was very ill and had a lot of delusions which wasn't her fault. But so do I, and I wouldn't hurt anyone or anything. The fact she refused to continue her medication and attend hospital appointments is hard for me to reconcile, that was her choice although again that choice was influenced by her illness. I don't hate her, but I think she made some bad mistakes and was responsible for those despite her mental illness.

whitewing

Yes, I agree with you, but I also think it was a sign of the times with regard to mental illness then - she may not have had medical professionals that she felt she could trust. And certainly no one seems to have been checking you out. I hope it would be a different situation nowadays and I think it would be.

My grandparents were religious and I can honestly say that everyone who has ever said that they would pray for any of us in the family meant it kindly and because they accepted us and liked us for what we were. It was to make us better if we were ill, or to wrap us in love - it was never to sort out our badness.

Waves_and_Smiles

It is really helpful to hear that prayers were meant well, my perception of them was so different as a child. I would only pray when she forced me to, never alone as I had already decided that God hated me so I tried to slip under the radar. I do wonder what is going to happen with MIL's funeral too. Not only will it be extremely hard for me to get to, then I have to face being a church. If I don't go I feel like I am letting my partner down. The last time I attended a friends husbands funeral I had to leave and stand outside because I thought that I was going to pass out from being in a church alone. As soon as prayers came up I just ran. I skipped many weddings over the years too for the same reasons.

whitewing

I am glad that you are intending to go to MIL's funeral. You may actually find it changes your perception if church.

You may well be able to have a good chat with the vicar before the service is arranged. I would be honest and tell him/her your background (not every single detail). They may well be able to come up with an idea that lets you be there but also lets you slip out quietly if need be. You could also go through the wording of the prayers beforehand as then you can logic each line out rather than have to do it on the day. You could also keep you eyes open if it makes you feel better. I find it can be useful to take a handheld folding fan when I am sat in groups of people at these kind of things. I feel better with air wafting and you could use it to hide behind. You could also wear a hat, if that helps you feel protected.

What religion is your MIL/funeral likely to be? Has she ever discussed it with your DP?

The funerals I have been to have been a celebration of life. We even took DS when he was young - there would be no way that I would do that if I felt there was the slightest hint of negativity in a funeral service. DD went to my aunt's friend's funeral when she was about 2. Again, no way would she have gone if there was any prospective of emotional harm from it.

ETA: here are some benefits of praying http://www.thehealthsite.com/diseases-conditions/10-ways-praying-actually-benefits-your-health-p114/

I believe the vast majority of people praying are good people with big hearts. There are some exceptions to the rule, as there are to everything. The people I know who are actively religious are generally kind, forgiving and compassionate people who do take responsibiltiy for their actions.