Akward Situation...

quidsy

Penguinjim, you asked would I "admit" that one in 4 couples, blah blah, no I can't admit, I have no point of reference as I do not beleive the stats support the idea that for every 4 couples an individual knows, one will be support the stats. So I offered you my anecdotal, personal knowledge. You don't agree, that's fine.

As for the rest of your rant on my nationality & spelling, are we about to be given another "anti immigrant" blather? There was one earlier about why men don't want to get married due to all those pesky foreigners. fyi, I can't be bothered to proof read, I just type & go on the hope the person reading has enough intellect to bypass my poor typing skills. My bad.

And I am genuinely sorry if a woman discussing & supporting a relevant, actual issue still facing women today comes across to you as an "anti-man" rant but that is entirely your problem, not mine or maybe I should just learn to put up & shut up hey?

The idea that this topic is unable to be discussed & supported by a women without accusations of being "anti-man" or "man-bashing" is a very sad indication of how much work really needs to be done, housework division is the very tiny tip of a huge iceberg.

The message I am getting (not just from you btw) is that as a women I should not say anything that could even remotely offend a man even when talking about gender statistics & not as a personal attack on any individual man, in any way shape or form. Because you know, they need credit where it is due & should be given respect above & beyond my right to discuss this issue. Nice.

I'm away all this weekend with some of my extensive friend network, 98 of us in fact plus assorted kids & dogs, so maybe I'll do a poll amongst the men folk

duchy

poet123 wrote: »

Part of the "problem" is that after having children many women do not want to return to work full time, do not want to prioritise their careers. They want a better work life balance, and many women can achieve that, but it comes at the expense of that pay gap. I wanted to stay at home with my children when they were young, most men cannot do that, they are expected to continue to do what they did prior to having a family.

Do they ....or is it more a couple would prefer their child to be cared for at home and we're still gender bound enough that the mother is the "obvious" choice .

No-one bats an eyelid if a woman decides to not return after Mat leave and stay home but if a man gives up his job to become the fulltime carer whilst his wife works plenty of people would still find that situation worthy of commenting on and even disapprove.

Most young men may feel they cannot do it- but the reality is the only thing stopping them is their desire to conform to society's expectations and their own social conditioning.

PenguinJim

duchy wrote:

No-one bats an eyelid if a woman decides to not return after Mat leave and stay home but if a man gives up his job to become the fulltime carer whilst his wife works plenty of people would still find that situation worthy of commenting on and even disapprove.

It wasn't long ago that that was true, but it's surely not that common any more. As those older people die off hopefully they will take their sexism with them.

quidsy wrote: »

Penguinjim, you asked would I "admit" that one in 4 couples, blah blah, no I can't admit, I have no point of reference as I do not beleive the stats support the idea that for every 4 couples an individual knows, one will be support the stats. So I offered you my anecdotal, personal knowledge. You don't agree, that's fine.

As for the rest of your rant on my nationality & spelling, are we about to be given another "anti immigrant" blather? There was one earlier about why men don't want to get married due to all those pesky foreigners. fyi, I can't be bothered to proof read, I just type & go on the hope the person reading has enough intellect to bypass my poor typing skills. My bad.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

I've generally found the UK to be ahead of other countries in terms of equal rights. I type properly on forums as a simple courtesy to those reading. That it helps avoid making me look ill-educated is coincidental. I'm an immigrant myself, and am wholeheartedly in favour of more of a "one world" planet.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

quidsy wrote: »

And I am genuinely sorry if a woman discussing & supporting a relevant, actual issue still facing women today comes across to you as an "anti-man" rant but that is entirely your problem, not mine or maybe I should just learn to put up & shut up hey?

The idea that this topic is unable to be discussed & supported by a women without accusations of being "anti-man" or "man-bashing" is a very sad indication of how much work really needs to be done, housework division is the very tiny tip of a huge iceberg.

The majority of women here have weighed in on the subject without ridiculous sexism. You of course have the right to think that the difference in household work done is due to the men. I've quoted your post where you assumed wrongly that a man was being lazy. I have the right to think that's wrong, and probably sexist.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

quidsy

Please try not to clutch at straws. your insults & accusations, attacks & assumptions of what I think, you imagine I have said, & what you consider sexist, do us both a disservice. Unless you are able express yourself without resorting to gaslighting then you have nothing of merit to add.

I've quoted your post where you assumed wrongly that a man was being lazy

Where? I've never referred to anyone as lazy.

Nope, nothing demonstrated anywhere, simply your assumptions & unwillingless to discuss without trying to undermine my view. You seems to be taking what was a perfectly normal & civilised discussion VERY personally.

I'd recommend a nice cuppa.

FBaby

Most young men may feel they cannot do it- but the reality is the only thing stopping them is their desire to conform to society's expectations and their own social conditioning.

That's a very interesting view as it poll apart from my experience speaking with my friends and colleagues both females and males which is that is is women who are the drivers in the dynamics of the family and them who want to stay home/work part-time. Most of the men colleagues I have spoken to would prefer their wives to work full-time to so they could have a higher income with the kids going to nursery/clubs, but their wives don't want to and they accept it.

Among all my female friends (almost all mothers), only the equivalent of about 20% work full-time and out of these, all but a couple are foreigners! I can't think of any who has considered going back to work full-time after their children started secondary school.

Now I am fully conscious that there might a a social class influence on this, but seems a cultural thing too as mothers working full-time seems much more a rarity in this country than in others I lived in.

Lily-Rose_3

Wow, Penguin Jim; I think you are the rudest, and most obnoxious poster on here, and that is a BIG accolade to achieve on here. Your comments are getting more rude and insulting with each passing moment. And so far, I have not seen you post any more 'proof' of your claims than quidsy or person-one or anyone else opposing the views. You sure have insulted and berated them a hell of a lot more though!

As person one said around post 397:

"Its thoroughly disheartening that anybody who dares to challenge the inequalities that still exist in our society just gets instantly accused of 'man bashing'."

Society does still expect the woman to be the child carer, and it usually is, and in many couples/families it is the woman who ends up doing most of the housework and cooking and shopping etc. No 'man bashing' here; it's the way it is in many households. I don't understand why some posters on here are so incensed to hear people say that, when it's true!

Quidsy, why are you even still talking to this man 'Penguin Jim?' I wouldn't waste a second of my time 'debating' with someone like this. Someone who can't have a debate without resorting to personal insults and mocking, when he starts to lose the argument.

I would quit now, as no matter what you say, he will have an answer for it (probably made up,) and will continue to insult you further.

I have no time for individuals like this. After the way he has been posting on here, I would not give him the pleasure of a response. He is feeding off the attention.

garner21

Try not to over think things because that's where your mind takes over.

I think you just need to sit down and see what he wants out of this relationship. However if he says he doesn't know I wouldn't 'cut your looses'. If you truly love him you should be happy whatever marriage or no marriage. It's such a overrated thing these days which doesn't have the same meaning as it used to.

If he does want to eventually why don't you proposed? It'll be a nice alternative. I have plenty of friend where the woman has proposed and it's been amazing for them.

quidsy

Thank you Lily-Rose, I have already made my final post above to this poster. i only responded in order for anyone reading this page can see that I refute the claims of calling anyone lazy & or that it had been "proved" I was sexist. Neither of those things are true but it is easy to try to win an argument by attempts to discredit, undermine & create uncertainty in anothers thoughts & opinions.

Something that would never work with me, you can deny truth & yet it still exists.

VestanPance

quidsy wrote: »

Thank you Lily-Rose, I have already made my final post above to this poster. i only responded in order for anyone reading this page can see that I refute the claims of calling anyone lazy & or that it had been "proved" I was sexist. Neither of those things are true but it is easy to try to win an argument by attempts to discredit, undermine & create uncertainty in anothers thoughts & opinions.

Something that would never work with me, you can deny truth & yet it still exists.

He's been blunt, but he's just pointed out that most of what you've posted is gibberish, with your constant terrible attempts to twist "facts" to back up your claims.

quidsy

So nothing constructive to add then?

If you think attempting to paint me a racists, making personal comments & basically putting words in my mouth as blunt then I have nothing further to add to you either.

You can agree that there is a gender inbalance or not, either way is fine but calling me names, insulting me & basically making stuff up about my post isn't fine.

Pointing out the facts of the gender inbalance is not a personal insult or an insult on those men who aren't part of the statistics. Just that the statistic still exists.