Akward Situation...

quidsy

So you accept that if you know three married (two-gender) couples, the chances are in one of them the man is doing the same or more housework than the woman?

And if you know six married (two-gender) couples, the chances are in one of them the man is a house-husband?

Nope, the stats are not based on same group friends but in mine, I know only one couple out my extensive friend list where the husband is an unwilling HH due to lack of work. All others are 2 working parents, where the women, invariably do more in the home than the husband and as mentioned many pages back, I am not specifically talking about hoovering & dusting, just all the little extras that we tend to take on. We are all under 40, professionals with kids.

The old "Mad Men" (as another poster tastefully put it earlier) discrimination simply isn't the paradigm in the UK any more.

No one said it did

So we are basically in agreement, you agree that the balance is still tilted towards men in life & I agree that some change has already happened.

Where we seem to disagree is that I beleive the situation still needs some work & that I don't beleive men should be given special credit for the change.

FBaby

I have a son, he cooks, he helps clean, he enjoys computors, action figures & movies, his current favorite is tangled. I wont let him watch drivel like frozen as the characters are too one dimensional, princesses getting saved by princes & as in frozen, the odd, "damaged" sister ending up alone at the end, smiling at her prettier, cuter, more compliant sibling getting the man. urgh

mmmm, that's exactly my point!! You are teaching equality in gender roles to your son, so why do those with the same views not do the same (ie, encourage their daughters who might have an interest/skill in male oriented fields to consider it as a career).

I assume this is aimed at me

No since you are married to a man who does his share. I was thinking more of OP.

quidsy

mmmm, that's exactly my point!! You are teaching equality in gender roles to your son, so why do those with the same views not do the same (ie, encourage their daughters who might have an interest/skill in male oriented fields to consider it as a career).

How do you know they don't but the child does what they are interested in instead? I only have a son, had I had a daughter she would be raised the same & encouraged within her sphere of interest. Alot of girls just aren't interested in computors & if you have kids, you will know that you can't force them to like or do something they don't want to, the odd few will pop up but as already mentioned, this is a predominantly male, geeky environ for a reason, mostly becuase boys are interested in techie crap more. That is nature imo. My 16 yo niece for example wouldn't work with computors, she certainly could if she wanted to but she wants to go into finance, another male dominated area, one that I got into & which she has never seen the male-female ratio to be an issue. She would no more become a primary school teacher (predom female) or a nursery nurse (predom female) than work with computors. It's the choice she made as a young woman. You can't force young people to do something they do not want to & what job girls & women do is not as important as being treated equally in them

FBaby

Of course it is a case of a lack of interest I don't dispute that. My point is that children to an extent do develop interests around what they have been exposed to hence the parental influence (bur not only).I just find it very odd that out of more than 100 girls only 2 expressed an interest in the subject.

quidsy

Interesting there has been a campaign for a lego to produce "scientist" figures for girls & only yesterday I saw on my fb page, shared by my scientist girlie friends, that they are bringing out an astronomer with a telescope, a paleontologist with a dinosaur skeleton and a chemist in a lab., my friends all hope that this will encourage more women into the sciences.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/04/lego-launch-female-scientists-series

If it does then it will be great & maybe a similar program by apple, google et all would reap better recruitment of women in the future.

Like it said, more work to be done

quidsy

If I go by what I was like at 16 I can only guess where most of their interests lie

extent do develop interests around what they have been exposed to

you know, I used to beleive this till I had my son, it is like living with an alien species sometimes, even husband is baffled by the stuff he is into. Husband is a musical & hopes to get him to play guitar or piano, nope, not interested. I don't have many hobbies but Minecraft is his new thing and he can talk for hours with my neighbour (36yo women minecrafter) about ghasts, hero brians, larva, diamond swords and whatever else is in it. me & oh just sit there confused!

VestanPance

For someone who has been ranting about gender inequality you don't half have a lot of 1950's dated gender prejudice towards jobs. Including stating that it's nature, rather than nurture.

I think that's more a sign of your own views things than reality. For a feminist you seem to have a huge blind spot about letting girls do what they want and encouraging them that any option is open, not just traditionally viewed female roles.

That post screams of anything but open minded about gender roles and more about enforcing your own hates and prejudice on certain things as being standard.

VestanPance

quidsy wrote: »

Interesting there has been a campaign for a lego to produce "scientist" figures for girls & only yesterday I saw on my fb page, shared by my scientist girlie friends, that they are bringing out an astronomer with a telescope, a paleontologist with a dinosaur skeleton and a chemist in a lab., my friends all hope that this will encourage more women into the sciences.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/04/lego-launch-female-scientists-series

If it does then it will be great & maybe a similar program by apple, google et all would reap better recruitment of women in the future.

Like it said, more work to be done

The slighest bit of research would tell you that among other tech companies there have been quite a few high level high profile women including at the likes of Google and Facebook.

Probably doesn't help encourage them when they are told "this is a predominantly male, geeky environ for a reason, mostly becuase boys are interested in techie crap" by someone who claims to be fighting their corner!

Georgiegirl256

quidsy wrote: »

I assume this is aimed at me. I have repeatedly noted that my husband does his fair share & more on occasion. Yet I am still able to understand the issues surrounding inequality & acknoledge that there is work still to be done.



Not at all, there goes the reading comprehension again. I have & continue to state that yes, many men are changing the stereotype but am also pointing out that the issue is still an issue. Failing to talk about it openly & acknoledge the fact, people like you are doing women in general a disservice.

You talk about MY so called failure to read? You seem to be having a problem with that yourself. Where have I failed to acknowledge that the split still isn't equal? I haven't. On many occasions throughout this thread I have stated quite clearly that I can see where you are coming from and I agree, there is still an inbalance....but nowhere near as bad as you are making it out to be. If 'people like me' (thanks for being so rude again btw :cool: ) are doing women in general a disservice by doing so, then so be it. However, I really don't think I or anyone else in this thread who has the same view as me is. I thought we were talking about it openly btw?

Why do they need credit for doing what women do without credit? See the problem, you are giving them special attention for just doing what they should.
.

Women do get credit for it, so why shouldn't men?

(Forgot to change colour above but you can see my paragraph in amongst yours.)

quidsy

have a huge blind spot about letting girls do what they want and encouraging them that any option is open, not just traditionally viewed female roles.

Where have I said girls can't do what they want or discouraging them from industries? My posts have mearly pointed out that you cannot "force" children to like something in order to close a gender gap, better they follow their interests. You acn enourage all you liek but uinless the interest is there, it is pointless. I'm all about choice ratehr than force.

The slighest bit of research would tell you that among other tech companies there have been quite a few high level high profile women including at the likes of Google and Facebook.

There was an article in several papers only a couple of days ago from tech giants who admit they have "slipped" in their gender equality. I am aware of the very high profile women in IT but they are hardly representative of the "regular" girl on the street.

Probably doesn't help encourage them when they are told "this is a predominantly male, geeky environ for a reason, mostly becuase boys are interested in techie crap" by someone who claims to be fighting their corner!

I haven't "told" anyone this, this is my view based on what I see around me. Any girl wanting to go into would have my full support. I wouldn't chose it but then I wouldn't be a copper either yet my little sister took that path with my full support.

Time to chill out a bit and you say i'm ranting!