PCN from excel help needed

Whyshouldi

I received a PCN on 3rd December 2013 for using a excel car park on 23rd November, I appealed because I was only in the car park for 17 minutes (1649-1706 on the pictures). The reason for my appeal is that I am a type 1 diabetic and should I feel unwell at the wheel I have to pull over somewhere safe, check my sugar, take some food, check again 15 minutes later, if it's good then I can set off again, which is what I did, I never left the car, it was dark and none of the signage is great at night.
Having never used the car park before I had no idea that it was camera operated. Consequently I lost the appeal as I did the POPLA appeal. The next letter I received threatened court proceedings, I thought great as POPLA told me I had only lost because I failed to submit a letter from my doc confirming my condition. I have now received a threatening letter from Rossendales Collect demanding £136 within 7 days (7 days was up on 26th).
I am now lost what to do.
I have similar experiences in other manned car parks and always been told to take as long as I need with no charge, why do excel act this way?

Dee140157

This looks like one for Coupon-mad as she us the expert as far as I can tell with disability issues. She will give some good advice.

Coupon-mad

Whyshouldi wrote: »

I received a PCN on 3rd December 2013 for using a excel car park on 23rd November, I appealed because I was only in the car park for 17 minutes (1649-1706 on the pictures). The reason for my appeal is that I am a type 1 diabetic and should I feel unwell at the wheel I have to pull over somewhere safe, check my sugar, take some food, check again 15 minutes later, if it's good then I can set off again, which is what I did, I never left the car, it was dark and none of the signage is great at night.
Having never used the car park before I had no idea that it was camera operated. Consequently I lost the appeal as I did the POPLA appeal. The next letter I received threatened court proceedings, I thought great as POPLA told me I had only lost because I failed to submit a letter from my doc confirming my condition. I have now received a threatening letter from Rossendales Collect demanding £136 within 7 days (7 days was up on 26th).
I am now lost what to do.
I have similar experiences in other manned car parks and always been told to take as long as I need with no charge, why do excel act this way?

What a mess. You wasted the POPLA appeal but that's not insurmountable.

Your case is a bit like Excel v Greenwood 3QT60496 4/10/13, read his account here including a link to his picture in the local paper when Excel picked on him:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79002

... where he also lost at POPLA as he also didn't research what to write (like you he wrote 'the story of what happened' which is utterly pointless and chucks the POPLA appeal down the toilet - sorry). They did take the old guy to court and he had Multiple Sclerosis. But he got help from us regulars on pepipoo forum, with his defence and he won in court. Do read it all, it's well worth a read.

I think I would write a strong counter claim 'letter before action' to Excel and to the landowner (is it the Peel Centre)? I will write you a letter in a while, it will take me some time!

Whyshouldi

Appreciate the quick replies. I know I wasted the POPLA appeal after reading some of the previous threads but I thought wrongly that they would have looked up at least the DVLA letter on driving with diabetes.
I will have a read of the mentioned thread Excel vs Greenwood tomorrow.
By the way it was in Wakefield on George Street.
Thank you for the needed reassurance.

Coupon-mad

Send this to all 3 parties, this week by 1st class post and getting free certificates of posting from the PO counter (do not send these letters signed-for).



.....................................................................................................................................................................................{your address}
To: Excel Parking Services {address}
cc: Rossendales {address}
cc: Centre Manager {address}
..............................................................................................................................................................................................{date}



Dear Sirs,

LETTER BEFORE CLAIM AND FORMAL WARNING TO CEASE AND DESIST WITH HARASSMENT UNDER THE EQUALITY ACT 2010

ALL RECIPIENTS - this is not an appeal - if in doubt seek legal advice

Excel Parking Services Limited, acting in their capacity as car park agents, are pursuing me for a 'charge' despite being made aware that I have type 1 diabetes which was the sole cause of my car being temporarily stopped at the Centre. To cause me detriment under such circumstances is discrimination - specifically 'discrimination arising from a disability' - and all parties are liable.

I made a naïve 'appeal' thinking that Excel Parking Services Limited and POPLA would be reasonable but to no avail as I realised too late that POPLA require contract law arguments only. Excel Parking Services Limited have now sent me a threatening letter from Rossendales Collect and this points to a future small claim against me.

This continued pursuit of me for a charge - which arose only by a genuine flare up of my medical condition for a period of minutes and caused no inconvenience - is unwarranted harassment. This has escalated to become a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009).

The purpose of this letter is to warn all recipients of potential court action and to clearly instruct Excel Parking Services Limited - and its client at this car park and its agents - to cease and desist with the following behaviour, which is to my detriment as a disabled person within the definition in the Equality Act 2010:

- sending letters or making any further contact with me or my household, regarding this alleged 'charge' (save as to confirm cancellation).
- threatening court action over the above matter.

There is no legal contract between myself and Excel Parking Services Limited since it was dark, the signage was not seen because it was unlit and in any case I could not read it as I was ill and did not get out of the car. I am unfamiliar with this car park having never stopped there before so I was never aware of the restrictions or cameras. As Excel Parking Services Limited are fully aware, I only stopped the car because I feel unwell at the wheel and had no option but to pull over somewhere safe, check my blood sugar and take some food in the car before I was well enough to continue my journey. This took less than 15 minutes but the site cameras merely take a picture on arrival and exit which recorded the total emergency visit at a mere 17 minutes.

Excel Parking Services have harassed a disabled motorist to court before (and they lost) and I am determined my situation will not result in the same sort of draconian treatment. The case Excel Parking Services Limited lost was only last year Excel v Greenwood 3QT60496 4/10/13 against an elderly person with MS. Any reasonable person would have hoped this parking agent would have learned something about the Equality Act 2010 since then. This sort of harassment constitutes 'discrimination arising from a disability' and Excel Parking Services Limited knew about my status as a person with protected characteristics at the very point of my first appeal.

I am sending this letter to <Centre/car park landowner's name> to formally notify you that you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, in this case Excel Parking Services Limited. I am sending a copy to Rossendales because you are jointly and severally liable for the harassment. Now all parties have also been informed about my condition and all parties have been alerted to this discrimination arising from a disability.

Under the Practice Direction for pre-Court Conduct I am required to ensure you are now informed about your legal position.

All Above Parties: Take Formal Note
If I receive any more contact from Excel Parking Services Limited or their agents (Rossendales or otherwise) in an attempt to threaten me with court I may seek an injunction and/or I may sue all parties - including Rossendales and the landowner. My claim would be for damages for distress caused by the tort against persons of harassment, which is also a crime and which is specific banned conduct under the Equality Act 2010 (disabled persons). Damages for distress and disability discrimination will be claimed following legal advice - and set at whatever sum a Judge deems warranted under the circumstances of the case - but my intended claim will be a sum not less than £500.

I expect to receive your formal responses with 21 days of the date of this letter in the form of one communication from each party. Your response should acknowledge this Letter before Claim. In order to avoid action against you, I require an Undertaking that Excel Parking Services Limited will cancel the unwarranted charge and that all parties will remove my data (including my vehicle data) from any form of storage immediately.

If Excel Parking Services Limited commence a small claim instead of cancelling this charge, take formal note of my intention to counter-claim which will involve all parties being added into the claim and it is my understanding that this will force a court hearing. If you do not understand your legal position, please seek legal advice.

Yours faithfully,


< name – printed not signed>

A POST OFFICE 'CERTIFICATE OF POSTING 'OF THIS LETTER TO THE NAMED 3 RECIPIENTS HAS BEEN RETAINED.

Dee140157

:T:T:T Wow!

Whyshouldi

Having a bit of a problem finding out who actually owns the land as excel say it contravenes data protection to tell me, any ideas?

Coupon-mad

Excel won't tell you. Is there a retailer onsite, ask their Store Manager to forward your important letter to the Managing Agent of the site or to give you the address?

Or does the place have a name - e.g. the 'George St Retail Centre' or whatever? In which case Google it to find newspaper articles about it, or retail unit/sales adverts results, where you can normally find the Managing Agent listed somewhere.

Whyshouldi

The car park is as good as disused land used solely for parking, nothing else, however there is an Indian restaurant adjacent to it, I'll see if they know, after that I don't know. Is it vital to get the land owners details?

Coupon-mad

Well it's probably the Indian Restaurant who have the contract with Excel then?! Ask them. Your letter is stronger if addressed to the landowner or client who have contracted with Excel. Please don't delay sending the letter this week - if you cannot find out, just change it to lose the reference to 'Centre manager' but leave in the fact that you intend to add the landowner into the claim if you counter sue (you could find out from the Land Registry or Council later on if need be). DO NOT delay sending the letter to Excel and Rossendales as the next thing they are lining you up for is a small claim like you've read about (I hope) in Mr Greenwood's case. You want to get your letter in BEFORE they do that so don't give them any time, do not dither.

Whyshouldi

It'll be done today, thanks for the help.