Nervous as to what to say!!!!!

moomoomama27

I would check the facts, kids have a great way of turning things round when they get caught!

No school is going to condone violence, whether instigated first, or as retaliation. The children are taught to report bullying to appropriate places (peer mentor, staff, MSA's etc!), and as parents this is what we should be teaching them @don't take the law into your own hands''.

To be honest both boys sound as though they are behaving in ways that is not at all acceptable, so I think the head was right to be cross at your son as well.

Grumpygit

My daughter slapped a boy in class who was known for being a bully - he had been winding her up all class and pushing her stuff off the desk and around the desk when she was trying to draw and ruined her piece of art for the class.

She got detention but was worried about what we would say - myself, her step dad and her father all said not to worry about it and we weren't mad with her. We have all told her that if she gets bullied to hit back (but don't throw the first punch).

I am not apologising for that stance and whilst some people think that it won't help and that violence isn't an answer to violence - it sure as hell makes the child who is being bullied feel a lot better - which is the main thing.

Telling a bully "don't hit me or I will tell the teacher" isn't going to prove anything other than they are a soft target as everyone knows schools and teachers hands are tied.

A lady I work with ended up moving her daughter (who was in my daughter's year at the same school) to a fee paying school just to escape a bully.

In this case it was a 6 ft boy of the same age, who, when challenged by the teachers about bullying her claimed that she had bullied him! The school believed him even though the mother had proof otherwise.

No, there shouldn't be bullying in schools; Yes, teachers should be able to deal with it in the correct manner but they can't or won't; No, hitting back isn't always the answer and Yes, Santa is real - they are all fairy stories and unfortunately, it's always the children that suffer.


OP - don't back down and don't apologise for your son hitting him back. Go on the offensive about this other boy and (as been said previously) ask what the school are going to do to protect not only your son but others as well. They have failed you, you have not failed your son.

GobbledyGook

Not wanting to be overly picky, but surely if he was pushing things off her desk and she slapped him then she did throw the first punch?

That sort of thing makes life incredibly difficult for schools because winding someone up and being a pain is a very different disciplinary issue to raising your hand to someone.

Vikipollard

Accepting that you only have your son's version of events (so far), and that having worked in a school, it's amazing how different two sides can be, personally I think good on your son for shoving the lad back.


Ignoring it doesn't work. Teachers don't/can't do anything about it and as others have said, whining 'I'm telling teacher of you' will make it a whole lot worse. Creatures like the other lad will only continue as they go to secondary - what happens if he is in the same class as your son?


The Headteacher shouting is an absolute failure on their part. S/he is the adult. Shouting in such a way is designed to intimidate, as are threats to put incidents on file so they follow him around. So the teacher is also a bully. S/he might as well have said 'if you don't do what I say...' before s/he made the threat. And it was a threat, regardless of factual accuracy.


I would not apologise for your son's behaviour. If anything, I would state it was borne of his frustration at the lack of action against the other individual and I would be asking what the Head was doing to prevent your child from being further bullied in his/her school.


Remember that teachers often only have experience of working with children and many will treat you like a naughty one yourself! It doesn't mean they are right.


An anecdote for you OP. My eldest son (now 24), then aged 15 was the subject of a sanctimonious letter home regarding him accessing an inappropriate site on the internet during a Geography lesson. Letter to be put on file, grave concern etc. I calmly walked my son to the teacher (I did work at the school) and said 'You're telling me he (pointing) did this? Given that he doesn't actually TAKE Geography at all, let alone in your class?' Teacher sheepishly admits that no it wasn't him. Turned out to be a child with the same SURNAME (not even first name) in the year BELOW. Needless to say I had a full written apology and was shown the unredacted version of his file to prove the letter was not there. But it proves they don't bother to check their facts before they make spurious accusations which could have long lasting ramifications.


Best of luck OP.

Grumpygit

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Not wanting to be overly picky, but surely if he was pushing things off her desk and she slapped him then she did throw the first punch?

That sort of thing makes life incredibly difficult for schools because winding someone up and being a pain is a very different disciplinary issue to raising your hand to someone.

Yes technically she did throw the first punch so you are correct there but the teacher did nothing when she complained over the course of the lesson until she did what she did. He did get a worse punishment than she did but didn't then mess with her again......he moved on to other girls to bully and harass and the school still do nothing about him despite witnessing him doing it and also one girls parents seeing him bully her.

In my daughters case standing up to a bully has worked and I still say hitting back isn't wrong unless of course the children are retaliating with extreme violence and using weapons.....that is very wrong and I appreciate that sounds a bit hypocritical but a punch for a punch is nothing

FBaby

Pushing papers around and being plain annoying justifies a slap in the face? Surely retaliating would have been going over his desk and doing the same? Can't see how what could constitute physical assault be justified as a defensive move in this case. My daughter would have got a telling from me for reacting that way.

GobbledyGook

Grumpygit wrote: »

Yes technically she did throw the first punch so you are correct there but the teacher did nothing when she complained over the course of the lesson until she did what she did. He did get a worse punishment than she did but didn't then mess with her again......he moved on to other girls to bully and harass and the school still do nothing about him despite witnessing him doing it and also one girls parents seeing him bully her.

In my daughters case standing up to a bully has worked and I still say hitting back isn't wrong unless of course the children are retaliating with extreme violence and using weapons.....that is very wrong and I appreciate that sounds a bit hypocritical but a punch for a punch is nothing

I don't agree with children being taught to hit back because I think teaching children to go against what they are taught in school is unhelpful and confusing, but I can understand it. I don't agree at all that children should be lashing out when someone annoys them to pre-empt something else. I also can't think of any schools I've worked in where your daughter would not have been hauled over the coals for her actions.

If schools are not dealing with bullies effectively then parents needs to take appropriate steps. I get so frustrated when I hear other parents talking about how bad the schools are at dealing with things, yet barely a handful ever contact governors or take it further.

meritaten

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

When I got my kickboxing/Muai Thai licences, I was told very clearly that, should I be in a position where I had to defend myself (not retaliate, but defend myself), I had to bear in mind that having a licence was not something to share with an investigating police officer, as proof of having that training left me vulnerable to possible legal repercussions if the attacker claimed I had attacked them.

Your son is in that same position - his skills aren't there for retaliation, they're there for sport and for defence. As his sensei is likely to confirm, were he to be asked.

Same here Jojo, when I did Tae Kwon Do. our instructor told us to never mention having martial arts training. and yes it was for defence - but if someone came up to me and punched or pushed me for no reason - I would consider punching, kicking or pushing back a defensive move. its when a person inflicts more damage on an assailant than was done to them, it becomes an act of violent aggression and not defence.


my youngest son was the target of bullies in the first comprehensive he went to - and the teachers, the deputy head, the head of year, the head of Pastoral care and the Headmaster himself were all as useful as chocolate teapots at dealing with it. because they didn't know their own bullying policy never mind implement it. after son was hospitalised with broken nose, damaged ribs and extensive bruising (the schools response was as it had taken place off school premises in the lunch hour it was therefore nothing to do with them), I called the police in and the boys were all cautioned. and I understand the head had a visit from a senior police officer. and I removed him from the school - informed the lea the governers and our minister for children in the Welsh Assembly of the facts. funnily enough, at the end of term the head took early retirement.
I had spent 18 months trying to work WITH the school, and my son never once retaliated - but on occasions the school tried to blame HIM! so I say don't take any Bull from them - they have a duty of care to your son. which means he should be safe in his class - not being physically hurt!
I think another reason schools don't want to acknowledge a bullying problem is it doesn't look good on their stats!

km1423

if you don't wish to attend the school, write a formal letter of complaint to the school, in regards to the bullying your son has had to deal with. Turning the other cheek to bullying does not help your son. I wouldn't tolerate being bullied as an adult, and if the proper course of action isn't being taken now to deal with the child bully, this young person will grow up and become an adult bully - therefore too late.

As a parent of a child who has been racially bullied, I involved the police, it soon made the school take me seriously - and I was prepared to go all the way.

The school has a responsibility to deal with this issue, and have procedures in place - make them stand up to it, read them their school policy (for bullying) if they have one.

If you attend the school go their prepared with written notes, dates, times, etc and other relevant information. Be calm, and make sure they are fully aware of your concern.

Don't let the school intimidate you, they are responsible for your child in school.

Good luck and hope it all goes well.

Grumpygit

FBaby wrote: »

Pushing papers around and being plain annoying justifies a slap in the face? Surely retaliating would have been going over his desk and doing the same? Can't see how what could constitute physical assault be justified as a defensive move in this case. My daughter would have got a telling from me for reacting that way.

Who said a slap in the face? I never did and she didn't - she slapped his arm. He was sitting on the same bank of desks next to her and wasn't doing any work that she could push off.

Also, we are not "teaching" her to hit back, we are just saying if someone hits you...... hit them back.

My work colleague did escalate things to the local education authority but still nothing happened which then led her to moving her daughter. There are restrictions on catchment areas - she was lucky she had a daughter - she wouldn't have been able to move a son, as it was to a fee paying girls school and we don't have something similar for boys.

Anyway, this is about the OP - I hope she comes back to confirm what she did.