Perception vs Reality

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

Genuine question.
Was my mate just a fool or naive for going through all the process he did?

Probably not a fool. If he wanted to enter as a skilled migrant then that was almost certainly the way to go.

My point is that there are many ways to enter Aus. Just because most Brits enter on a 457 doesn't mean that's how all migrants enter the country.

If you ever visit Sydney then you will see that it's a far more multicultural city than London even. We all rub along pretty well by-and-large.

Conrad

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Just 1.8% of locals are from the EU accession states.

Another case of perception being extremely different to reality.

A good mate of mine makes this point you do Hamish and always brings out the official stats but everyone round here knows what they see with their own eyes, you walk round the town now and about 40% have East European accents.


Similarly the letting agent in my office obviously keeps details figures and around 55% of all tenant enquiries are now Eastern European not to mention the non EU migrants.


Official stats are clearly not aligning with reality.
About 10% of the shops in both my home and work towns are now E European.
These areas are completely typical.


I know from 2 decades experience that almost all self employed people earn much more than official stats reveal for example due to them paying halve their income to their spouse to benefit from 2 tax allowances and lower marginal tax rates.




I well recall Barbara Roach invited onto Newsnight to defend Labours immigration management in the early to mid noughties using similar narratives to yourself, vastly underestimating the reality, far too much reliance on hopelessly naïve statistics.




Take those LSE studies on whether migrants are a net financial benefit to the nation. There is no way they would capture the huge numbers working in the cash economy such as in takeaways and hand car washes. They also ignore HB and things like queue jumping due to having a large number of kids. Utterly naïve myth making that sheeple fall for.




Years ago on here I described how none of the Greek enquirers Ive ever met for a mortgage pay any tax that tax avoidance is just endemic and was met with naïve derision. Lo and behold it's now received wisdom that Greeks have a particular distain for tax. No doubt back then you would have found some lofty academic report telling me Greeks were not habitual tax avoiders.


I now deal with North London Turks almost all of whom own super markets ('food centres') and or takeaways to fatten up the British school kids (they do not let their own kids eat takeaways). Again tax paying is seen as something very alien. How would LSE intellectuals possibly capture these stats?

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

LOL.

The point was that supply and demand does not set the price in the care industry either, as it has "diktat" involvement.

Throwing in the muddle line doesn't do anything. The fact that you are throwing it in as soon as you are challenged on your asertions speaks volumes.

I'm not sure what your argument is.

Prices are set by supply and demand unless the Government intervenes to set prices instead. The Government intervenes in the labour market to set wages (prices) by having a minimum wage.

It's not that complicated.

Graham_Devon

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Hmmmmm...

My water rates have increased Year on Year.
I understood that is why many are considering water meters to show consumption.

That's inflation. Not supply and demand.

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

Probably not a fool. If he wanted to enter as a skilled migrant then that was almost certainly the way to go.

My point is that there are many ways to enter Aus. Just because most Brits enter on a 457 doesn't mean that's how all migrants enter the country.

If you ever visit Sydney then you will see that it's a far more multicultural city than London even. We all rub along pretty well by-and-large.

I was never questioning the muliticultural element of immigration to Australia, more the impression that they seem to favour a certain quality of immigrant and use legislation to achieve the aim.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

I'm not sure what your argument is.

Prices are set by supply and demand unless the Government intervenes to set prices instead. The Government intervenes in the labour market to set wages (prices) by having a minimum wage.

It's not that complicated.

It's not complicated at all. Though why you made out that carers wages are set by supply and demand is beyond me.

Clapton questioned this. You then went on to say "unless government diktat is involved".

Government diktat is clearly involved with the care industry.

The reason were at this stage is you appear to be throwing in one liners to the debate, only to get questioned to which you appear to take offence and start calling people names.

if you didn't throw these one liners in we wouldn't be here. Note that the same thing is going on with bantex, stemming from your post to him simply stating "you're wrong".

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

I was never questioning the muliticultural element of immigration to Australia, more the impression that they seem to favour a certain quality of immigrant and use legislation to achieve the aim.

That's the perception from abroad however the reality is that taxi drivers, shelf stackers and fruit pickers are from poorer countries in Aus just as much as in the UK.

You'll almost never meet a born-and-bred Aussie taxi driver for example. It's pretty rare to buy a coffee or get a cheap haircut from one either.

IveSeenTheLight

Graham_Devon wrote: »

That's inflation. Not supply and demand.

How do you know?

You don't know if it's inflation or margin.
You don't know if it's additional infrastructure or refurbishment.
You don't know how the increase is factored or what percentage increase I have had to pay on the bill.

It seems you know very little about this.

You conveniently dismissed my point about people moving to water meters to measure their consumption.
I know why, it's because you'd have to admit this impacts the personal demand throughout the overall supply of water.

Jsut because you don;t see an immediate increase, it does not mean that this is not calculated out on a yearly cost to you.

Conrad

Generali - many proud working class trades people wanting to earn a decent days pay (often self employed on a building site) have to prostitute themselves for halve pay thanks to the army of cut priced migrants.


Government intervention would be of no relevance because this is still above NMW.


How would you feel if you had to compete with halve priced workers for your daily income? What would you tell your kids when you couldn't afford a holiday this year?

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

But...

A) I'm not terrified of immigrants.
I don't believe my town is alien to me.

Then breathe deeply and take some time to read what I wrote, and stop assuming everything everyone says revolves around you. I neither think your racist or said you were racist anywhere in this thread.

As to your later points. Yet again you're just showing your automatic bias as usual. First you say that immigration is driving down caring costs, now you're suggesting that the number of immigrants in caring (or lack thereof) had no effect on costs for 4 decades. Yet again, within a matter of hours you've made two completely contradictory arguments: 1) That immigration affects wages in caring and that 2) immigration doesn't affect wages in caring.

I'm done 'debating' this with you, because although I'd be happy to see some evidence that immigration was harming care provision, you on the other hand have decided that it is, regardless of any and all facts, and will just come up with a never ending stream of half-baked imagined reasons and ignore the fact that they are all dismissed easily and unequivocally.