Inset Days vs School Holidays

GobbledyGook

I think the actual problem with school holidays/days off are a whole host of issues that clash together and end up with parents resenting schools for too many days off and schools/staff resenting parents for not understanding when in reality the blame is elsewhere.

The biggest issue for parents with school holidays, for what I can see, is the cost (and availability) of childcare. This ends up making days off for inset, polling, the roof caving in etc difficult and sometimes impossible. However the reason the cost of childcare has increased so much was the badly-handled introduction of tax credits childcare component. If done correctly it would have been an outstanding idea. However now it has just made childcare cost prohibitive for most people - despite contributions to it. That means that parents dislike it when schools close which in turns makes school staff feel like parents treat them as free childcare.

From the position of the school staff they have been landed with more and more and more paperwork, rules and courses that they have less time teaching. People look at teachers complaining about the attack on their pensions and think 'they get all those holidays and finish at 3.30pm' when in reality they spend hours and hours filling in pointless paperwork before they even get close to teaching your child. Then you add in the cutbacks in other areas that affect them. For example in my last school I worked with 9 children who even just 10 years ago wouldn't have been at mainstream school - far less mainstream with very little extra support for the school.

Everything all clashes together and it ends up with parents and teachers feeling annoyed with each other when really they both should be annoyed elsewhere.

globetraveller

GobbledyGook wrote: »

I think the actual problem with school holidays/days off are a whole host of issues that clash together and end up with parents resenting schools for too many days off and schools/staff resenting parents for not understanding when in reality the blame is elsewhere.

The biggest issue for parents with school holidays, for what I can see, is the cost (and availability) of childcare. This ends up making days off for inset, polling, the roof caving in etc difficult and sometimes impossible. However the reason the cost of childcare has increased so much was the badly-handled introduction of tax credits childcare component. If done correctly it would have been an outstanding idea. However now it has just made childcare cost prohibitive for most people - despite contributions to it. That means that parents dislike it when schools close which in turns makes school staff feel like parents treat them as free childcare.

From the position of the school staff they have been landed with more and more and more paperwork, rules and courses that they have less time teaching. People look at teachers complaining about the attack on their pensions and think 'they get all those holidays and finish at 3.30pm' when in reality they spend hours and hours filling in pointless paperwork before they even get close to teaching your child. Then you add in the cutbacks in other areas that affect them. For example in my last school I worked with 9 children who even just 10 years ago wouldn't have been at mainstream school - far less mainstream with very little extra support for the school.

Everything all clashes together and it ends up with parents and teachers feeling annoyed with each other when really they both should be annoyed elsewhere.

Sums it all up perfectly. Although teachers are not happy as being seen as childcare, most parents don't soley see them as childminders. Real life though does kick in and childcare has to be found. Teachers know this- they are parents too!
The vocal few who take digs all the time at teachers don't actually know what teaching entails nowadays. We all might remember our teachers sitting at a desk directing the class and marking jotters at the same time. If only it was like that now!! 40% of new teachers leave within 5 years. Why, if the job is so easy and with so many benefits? Something has gone wrong.

Spendless

balletshoes wrote: »

from personal experience, unless the inset days are tagged on to summer school holidays, on the same dates for every school in the county, its likely there wouldn't be holiday clubs to cover it anyway - most of the holiday clubs in this area (not the private ones) don't operate in the last week of the summer holidays, or before the first full (Monday-Friday) week of the holidays.

I find it easier to get one day off from work (as I can ask for leave weeks in advance) compared to a week, especially in/around existing school holidays.

I find the opposite. There's wrap around care on site at the school my daughter attends and if they add an inset on to a holiday, the holiday club is far more likely to be open for all those days, unlike when you get a 'random' Friday or Monday just during term -time. The holiday club is open to all schools not just ones the pupils who attend the connected school, so the likelihood is that there would be more demand for places as more schools in the area would also have chosen the same inset day.

In addition the private school also runs a holiday club and their holidays are slightly out of sync with the state schools. Again anyone can attend, so you can book your child into their club if the dates overlap that they are both out, because the private school has their hols a week earlier or later and your child has a tagged on inset day.

Though I get advance notice of all inset days for the academic year, my workplace runs a Jan-Dec hol year, I find most workplaces do that or an April-March one. Consequently I currently have no idea of inset days for the rest of 2014 after July. If it happens that any are planned between Sept-Dec it may be that someone is already off and booked it a while back.

IrishRose12

ViolaLass wrote: »

That was me. The idea of using a training day to write reports seems bizarre to me. Staff should be undertaking CPD, not catching up on work.

(I'm a teacher, by the way, so by your definition I am allowed to comment.)

Baker days and Exceptional closures that's what they are called here. not Training days, so it's the schools discretion what they do. One day is used for making a dent in the reports, one day is used for Parent teacher meetings. The other 8 days (we get 5 of each in total) are either days of meetings, or training.

duchy wrote: »

Indeed you can ....but I *have* worked as a classroom assistant -admittedly at secondary not primary level as you do to judge by your waiting for parents and cutting out remarks. So yes I can compare working in challenging roles in the private sector with working in education using personal experience .Frankly the work load of a TA is nothing compared with a teaching role however- as you say the paperwork is a heck of a lot less-you finish at 3.30-4pm and walk away. But we're not talking about support staff in this conversation - we're talking about teachers. As someone said to Daisy earlier in the thread- No-one is saying teachers work less hard than other graduates in comparable roles in the private sector - going in early, working late, working through lunch taking work home are common there too with holidays are usually only five or six weeks a year. Even allowing for lesson planning at home in the summer holidays etc most teachers will admit they still have more time off for holidays. I do believe the misconceptions about how easy or hard done by people are.....come from both sides. (but I also believe classroom assistants get the best of both worlds so have NOTHING to whine about !!)

I never said it was?? But there is a hell of a lot of work entailed for Primary school Assistants. Maybe try working with 31 4-5 year olds or in a Primary school setting peio then come back and tell me if assistants have no reason to "whine" as you call it.
I have also been talking about teachers on the thread as well as the other staff also, as inset days are for the support staff also. Training etc. is involved for us also. I know all too well, and have said it, what teachers have to do, give up and deal with. It is the main reason I won't go on to become a teacher as the teachers I work with are under enough stress, don't get time to get to know their pupils or can't help all of the children - especially weaker children as much as they should do. This is where the assistants come in, as 9 times out of 10 we are left with the weaker children. Which is wrong IMO but that's the way it is.

People need to realise and appreciate the role of the whole staff in a school and not just the teachers, yes they do an amazing job for the support/time they are given, however everyone from the Principles right down to us Classroom assistants, and the very school secretary, caretaker and cleaners deserve just the same appreciation as they work behind the scenes and get little or no appreciation for their hard work at all. Just because we aren't teachers doesn't mean we have an easy life of it. We still worry about children care for them, look after them wipe away their tears, we do all the things with the children that the teachers won't do. As they say it's not their job! I have to add though that it's not all teachers who think like this, but there are a lot out there who do.
My sister is a teacher and she passed a comment about something and I went in and out through her as she said, I'll get Miss ...... to do that as that's not my job and I just don't want to do it.
I told her to get get her classroom assistants contract and tell me where it said that in it, as I showed her mine and she near died. I also told her if I worked with her she would know her ar*e from her elbow!

Counting_Pennies_2

I haven't had a chance to read the replies, I am sure someone has stated this.


Basically teachers are contracted to work 195 days a year, 190 of which the children are legally entitled to education, and the teachers have to teach those days. The additional 5 days are for the school to decide (sometimes in conjunction with other schools) when to put on training sessions for their staff. It might be to go over latest legislation, or it might be to meet an inspiring author to find new ways to teach and inspire the children

ViolaLass

IrishRose12 wrote: »

Baker days and Exceptional closures that's what they are called here. not Training days, so it's the schools discretion what they do. One day is used for making a dent in the reports, one day is used for Parent teacher meetings. The other 8 days (we get 5 of each in total) are either days of meetings, or training.

To be clear, by 'should be doing training', I mean that it seems a great shame not to use a day when everyone is free to look at cross-curricular opportunities, explore autism or give teachers time to talk to their TAs. These are all things that, I find, it is difficult to organise during term.

IrishRose12

ViolaLass wrote: »

To be clear, by 'should be doing training', I mean that it seems a great shame not to use a day when everyone is free to look at cross-curricular opportunities, explore autism or give teachers time to talk to their TAs. These are all things that, I find, it is difficult to organise during term.

Oh they do but. I think this is the benefit of us having 10 days, instead of what it seems to me that in England it's less. The training days can only be fit in around when the board can arrange someone to come out to us, or when the people leading the course are able to fit us in.
The day for reports, both teachers and assistants sit down and compare the notes we keep and have for each child when we work with them. We also check test results for various programmes we have to complete in the school and get those recorded and sent away to the board again.
This day also means that you can get at least 10 out of 31 reports completed or you can make a dent in a rough report for each child. It also means that the teacher doesn't have to spend half as much time doing this work in their own home on their own time, and missing out on family time. There are quite a few schools around here that do the same thing, and have done for quite a number of years now.

We use our days very well, and get an awful lot done and covered. But a lot of things are covered in staff meetings, and, 2 afternoons a week each assistant sits down with the teacher they are with (not every teacher has an assistant) and we discuss what needs to be discussed.
But a lot of this is also done during lunchtimes or break times too.
Also just because they are inset days doesn't mean everyone is free. this year 5 out of the 9 inset days we've had so far both teachers and assistants have been at various courses outside of the school and they haven't been at the same courses.

It's not a great shame as we have a thriving school with outstanding inspection reports and happy parents and children. There is very little problems and we are lucky to have a large staff where we all have knowledge in certain areas and can offer advice and support if and when needed.
But you don't need inset days just to speak to assistants, or train. Also a lot of things like this are done in the last week of August when we return to work before the children start back.

To be honest I don't think it's very fair to judge a school on how they use their inset days or judge their decisions. What works for one school doesn't work for another. We do what works for us just like other schools do. Again, unless you work in said school you cannot know or judge what they do or when they do it. I haven't judged or commented on any of the other people/schools on here on how they use their inset days, so I don't see why I am being picked up on and judged.

Carmina-Piranha_2

Mrs_Soup wrote: »

Actually having an inset day on polling day is saving them a day off if their school would have to close for polling.
I quite like it when they add an inset day onto summer half term as it gives more options for long weekend/holiday etc.

Me too. My youngest's school (where I work) had INSET on Friday, which added to May Day gives us a 4 day weekend. Then when we close for polling, they have another INSET day after that so we have another 4-day break.

That's two long weekends in may where families could go to the seaside, etc. for a holiday if they can't pay school holiday prices.

duchy

Part of the problem is that training days aren't just for training . Admin like report writing and teacher ta one to ones are administrative tasks and should be timetabled. Everyone loses out because of poor management/insufficient funding by abusing training days by using them for non training tasks.

ViolaLass

IrishRose12 wrote: »

This day also means that you can get at least 10 out of 31 reports completed or you can make a dent in a rough report for each child. It also means that the teacher doesn't have to spend half as much time doing this work in their own home on their own time, and missing out on family time. There are quite a few schools around here that do the same thing, and have done for quite a number of years now.

I'm still not convinced that that's what INSET days should be for but we'll have to agree to disagree.

IrishRose12 wrote: »

We use our days very well, and get an awful lot done and covered. But a lot of things are covered in staff meetings, and, 2 afternoons a week each assistant sits down with the teacher they are with (not every teacher has an assistant) and we discuss what needs to be discussed.

I would love to get two afternoons a week to talk to my TAs! If you get this, then lucky you and I can see why you then wouldn't do it on INSET days.

IrishRose12 wrote: »

Also just because they are inset days doesn't mean everyone is free. this year 5 out of the 9 inset days we've had so far both teachers and assistants have been at various courses outside of the school and they haven't been at the same courses.

Interesting. At my school, everyone is expected to be at school on INSET days precisely so that we can do whole school training.

IrishRose12 wrote: »

To be honest I don't think it's very fair to judge a school on how they use their inset days or judge their decisions. What works for one school doesn't work for another. We do what works for us just like other schools do. Again, unless you work in said school you cannot know or judge what they do or when they do it. I haven't judged or commented on any of the other people/schools on here on how they use their inset days, so I don't see why I am being picked up on and judged.

I think you're getting a bit defensive here. I'm not judging you and I don't think it's fair to say that I can't judge how your school manages this one aspect unless I work there - if we're not allowed to comment on each other's posts and information, what's the point of this forum?

I'm not saying your school is a disaster but I still find the use of INSET days for report writing surprising. It's hardly a new thing that you have to manage your time as a teacher to avoid work impinging too much on family/private time. I'm not convinced that such admin tasks are the reason why INSET days were introduced in the first place. Personally, I'd rather have the day free and write reports when I want. I'd rather spend INSET doing something to inspire/improve my teaching.