Inset Days vs School Holidays

duchy

Madmel wrote: »

In my other school, we condense our training into a number of twilight sessions which run from 3.45 until 5.15. This gives us a couple of extra days of holiday but to be honest, it is really tough working a full day then having to focus on training issues. The last INSET day was for coursework moderation, something that departments need to do, but do not have the time for in a normal teaching week.

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Thing is when the age old conversation about teacher holidays come up -teachers claim that they *don't* finish at 3.30 but often stay in school until 5 or 6 and then mark in the evenings at home . If this is the case then twilight training sessions shouldn't be any more of an effort than a normal day..... You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. We'd all like to do training at 9 am when we are fresh but the reality in the private sector is training is often done after a stressful full day of work too.

I'm not anti-teacher -I've worked in the education sector as well as the private sector and I do think a lot of teachers who have never worked outside their field really come across as feeling hard done by when the reality is they are no worse off than most- and far better off than others when it comes to these matters.

ViolaLass

duchy wrote: »

Thing is when the age old conversation about teacher holidays come up -teachers claim that they *don't* finish at 3.30 but often stay in school until 5 or 6 and then mark in the evenings at home . If this is the case then twilight training sessions shouldn't be any more of an effort than a normal day..... You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. We'd all like to do training at 9 am when we are fresh but the reality in the private sector is training is often done after a stressful full day of work too.

I'm not anti-teacher -I've worked in the education sector as well as the private sector and I do think a lot of teachers who have never worked outside their field really come across as feeling hard done by when the reality is they are no worse off than most- and far better off than others when it comes to these matters.

I don't think that quite adds up - if a teacher has to do a training session after school then the work they would have done then will have to be done in the evening. The day does get longer.

When I worked in the private sector, training was ALWAYS within the working day, never added on.

daisiegg

ady_j wrote: »

:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

You try arriving at school at 7.30am (at the latest - I have at least two colleagues in my department who are in at 7), spending half an hour or so doing your planning and photocopying and maybe managing to mark one or two of the essays from the ever present pile on your desk, before 8am rolls round and most days of the week at my school there are breakfast meetings, meetings with parents, or mini training sessions. Then you are straight to morning staff briefing at 8.40am before registration at 8.50am. Straight from registration to first lesson (one hour) and from there to the second lesson (probably not, unless you are lucky, in the same classroom or even the same building as lesson number one, so you are carrying often 30 exercise books and 30 copies of a Shakespeare play up 3 flights of stairs trying to magically get from first lesson ending at 10am to second lesson beginning at 10am). Then there is a 15 minute break but twice a week you have break duty (which means no food, drink or loo visit), and if you don't, chances are you have a student knocking on the door just as you are about to peel your banana needing help (maybe they have missed lessons due to being on holiday and need to catch up!) or you have to send an email or make a phone call about an incident that happened in the morning or a student you are worried about, or another teacher finds you to try and discuss something about a member of your form. If you are lucky you will manage half a banana and a wee in this time. Then it is to the next two one hour long lessons, then straight to lunch. In my school, the staff room is completely empty at lunchtime as virtually everyone is either in meetings, running revision sessions or extra curricular activities. If you are in a meeting you can probably eat your lunch during it but if you are running a session it is touch and go whether you will manage to wolf anything down. Usually there is time for a wee before the bell goes but if your session runs over you might have to forgo that privilege. Then registration, then afternoon lesson. When the bell goes at 3.40pm often the first thing you want to do is eat the other half of the sandwich you didn't manage at lunchtime. Oh, and maybe finally have a wee.

You try that a few times and tell me it isn't a full day's work! While I was a student I used to work in a supermarket doing 8am - 6pm shifts and that felt less like hard work than this.

To be fair, I have described the busiest type of day, but believe me there are many, many days like that. On some days you might not have a class every lesson so you may have one free period in which to try and catch up on some work, and very occasionally there is no breakfast meeting at 8am so you can manage a clear hour of work in the morning before morning briefing. What I said about break time and lunchtime is pretty typical though.

Not saying this is harder work or worse off than many other jobs and professions, but trying to show it is equal to them.


**i have just reread this and realised I appear slightly obsessed with having a wee. Sorry...that is my pregnant lady bladder talking!!

daisiegg

Brighton_belle wrote: »

That is seriously appalling Daisie - to think on the worst day of my life, my mother's funeral, my husband would not be allowed the day off work to comfort me is beyond comprehension. Inhuman.

I know. I'm not sure if it was because it was his civil partner's mother rather than 'wife' (I really hope not!). He went anyway, by the way, and had to have disciplinary action and take it as unpaid (which was all he had ever asked for in the first place).

duchy

IrishRose12 wrote: »

What parents forget also is that staff in schools are human beings, we have families of our own, our own children, and if we get home early from an inset day, to see your child's face when they get to see mummy/daddy pick them up from school when it isn't normal is the most precious thing to see. 10 days a school year it is, and I'd say 5 out of those 10 days I get to see my 2 older children delighted that mummy picked them up from school today. We don't get to see their Christmas Plays, go on trips with them, assemblies, Sports Days etc. We choose to do this job yes, but is it really that awful that we have lives outside of looking after and teaching your little darlings 6-8 hrs a day?

So if you were offered the chance to twilight your training and have four or five floating days to take in term time -would that benefit your quality of family life ?

(Although I do find your wail a bit OTT as you surely knew the hours you'd be working when you went into teaching ? I could post an equally hard done by wail as a single Mum with a child with a disability working fulltime to keep us and still having to juggle home and work responsibilities as well as SEN meetings that the school insist must be within school "working hours" which finish at 3.30 -so despite the school having all these teachers who don't stop working at 3.30 - they won't accommodate a meeting after this time so I needed to take time off to fit in with the school's "hours". )

Nicki

Sorry daisy but that's not any different to most people's working lives with the exception that most of us don't get 12 weeks off a year to either holiday in or plan our work for the remainder of the year which is where the "not equal" perception comes from.

As a lawyer, a typical day for me would be to get in to work around 8 to deal with any client issues which came in the previous day, leave at 9.30 to go to court. Sit in court between 10 and 1 (no loo or coffee break there either). When the court rises for an hour at 1 grab a sandwich with the client and counsel and discuss how the morning has gone and any changes in strategy for the afternoon. Back in court until 4 then back to the office to return phone calls and do any work for other clients which is urgent. The court transcripts will arrive around 6.30. Take these home to review and finish around 9.30/10. Start again the next day.

We obviously don't have trials every week but even with no trial on, my working day is usually a minimum of 9 to 7 daily and on call outside those hours by phone and email, with 5 weeks holiday a year.

daisiegg

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry daisy but that's not any different to most people's working lives with the exception that most of us don't get 12 weeks off a year to either holiday in or plan our work for the remainder of the year which is where the "not equal" perception comes from.

As a lawyer, a typical day for me would be to get in to work around 8 to deal with any client issues which came in the previous day, leave at 9.30 to go to court. Sit in court between 10 and 1 (no loo or coffee break there either). When the court rises for an hour at 1 grab a sandwich with the client and counsel and discuss how the morning has gone and any changes in strategy for the afternoon. Back in court until 4 then back to the office to return phone calls and do any work for other clients which is urgent. The court transcripts will arrive around 6.30. Take these home to review and finish around 9.30/10. Start again the next day.

We obviously don't have trials every week but even with no trial on, my working day is usually a minimum of 9 to 7 daily and on call outside those hours by phone and email, with 5 weeks holiday a year.

My point was not that it is any different from anyone else's working life, but I was responding to the person who was expressing shock at the idea that a teacher did a full day's work before 3.40pm. I also didn't bring up the hours of work that go on after 3.40pm and at the weekend - I was purely responding to that poster's idea about a full day's work.

Yes we get more holidays but I also bet as a lawyer you earn a lot more than I do as a teacher

Spendless

daisiegg wrote: »

I can't believe this (I don't mean I think you are lying, I just mean, wow!) I have never, ever, ever heard of teachers being allowed holiday during term time other than people mentioning it on these forums, which has happened once or twice before as well. We would not even be allowed a single day off for a close family member's wedding. A colleague recently was not allowed a day off for his mother in law's funeral (he would have been if it was his own mother, father, sibling, or spouse,but that is all). I have worked in a few different schools and know people working in many more than that and no one I ask has ever heard of teachers being allowed holiday in term time. I just don't get that at all!

Have you heard about this story?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10759813/Head-teacher-criticised-for-booking-a-month-off-during-school-term-to-get-married.html

daisiegg

Spendless wrote: »

Have you heard about this story?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10759813/Head-teacher-criticised-for-booking-a-month-off-during-school-term-to-get-married.html

That is mental :eek:

Nicki

daisiegg wrote: »

Yes we get more holidays but I also bet as a lawyer you earn a lot more than I do as a teacher

You might be surprised if you calculated it on a rate actually received per hour basis.

Don't forget that the government writes you a cheque every month me rain or shine. Lawyers need to Bill their clients for the work done and hope the client will pay and in some cases even sue for the unpaid Bill. Added to which some cases are no win no fee, so you could work for months and end up getting paid nothing for it if your clients evidence fell apart under cross examination. That's without even thinking about lawyers whose work is done on legal aid (whether the rates are very low) or do private client work where they offer half an hour free advice to anyone walking through the door.

A criminal law barrister doing legal aid work with around 10 years experience earns on average around £35k. I don't think that's far adrift to what a teacher with the same amount of experience and a TLR would be earning is it?