Inset Days vs School Holidays

daisiegg

Nicki wrote: »

You might be surprised if you calculated it on a rate actually received per hour basis.

Don't forget that the government writes you a cheque every month me rain or shine. Lawyers need to Bill their clients for the work done and hope the client will pay and in some cases even sue for the unpaid Bill. Added to which some cases are no win no fee, so you could work for months and end up getting paid nothing for it if your clients evidence fell apart under cross examination. That's without even thinking about lawyers whose work is done on legal aid (whether the rates are very low) or do private client work where they offer half an hour free advice to anyone walking through the door.

A criminal law barrister doing legal aid work with around 10 years experience earns on average around £35k. I don't think that's far adrift to what a teacher with the same amount of experience and a TLR would be earning is it?

Sorry, I really don't know the ins and outs - was purely basing my comment on the fact that a friend who recently qualified as a lawyer and works in the city just started on a salary that is more than I could hope to earn for a very long time. I didn't realise this wasn't typical, so I apologise for my misconception!

lostinrates

daisiegg wrote: »

Sorry, I really don't know the ins and outs - was purely basing my comment on the fact that a friend who recently qualified as a lawyer and works in the city just started on a salary that is more than I could hope to earn for a very long time. I didn't realise this wasn't typical, so I apologise for my misconception!

City lawyers are very much the peak of their profession for earning, and the salaries in the City for entrants have over 100% difference between them ( or did some years ago when DH was looking). So what you friend is earning in the city could potentially be double-ish what other city NQs are earning.

balletshoes

duchy wrote: »

Indeed but it was presented to the STAFF as -"we can have a training day or you can have a day off mid term and do twilight". I have NO problem with staff staying to normal finishing time of 6pm to "earn" the hours off -after all lots of salaried professionals come in early and stay late -some get to flex those hours , for others it is "just part of the job" so the teachers are fortunate in that case. My issue is when this "flex" is taken. It would be far less disruptive to the consumers/customers of the school (otherwise known as parents and students) if those days were either tagged onto the beginning or end of terms or the staff treated them as floating days . There are plenty of instances when teachers ARE absent to attend various off-site work related events/meetings/trainings and these could be treated in the same way
rather than these mass random days midterm which make difficulties for parents who already stretch their annual leave to cover school holidays -and already rely on holiday clubs which obviously don't exist for training days.

American schools give their teachers a certain number of "personal days" each year which can be used either as sick days or days off in term time. They can be taken at more or less any time but obviously if they are elective first week of term, exam weeks etc are excluded. My teacher friends use them for long weekends (so they get to holiday in term time-the age old teacher complaint) or weddings or all the other things we needs days off for and where they are elective the school gets to plan for cover and has lesson plans in advance so far better for the students than a teacher pulling a sickie.

Yes we need training days - but we don't need wholesale closure to accommodate them. Twilight them and then tag them onto the end of sessions or give the teachers the time off individually. Most would be happy to cover the lessons for others knowing it would mean they can have a day off mid term when they want it without having to get special permission or go sick (and make no mistake plenty of teachers will pull a sickie when they absolutely need a day off in termtime)

There's a mindset that we need to close the schools to fit in training - we don't. There are other options that benefit both teachers and families.

from personal experience, unless the inset days are tagged on to summer school holidays, on the same dates for every school in the county, its likely there wouldn't be holiday clubs to cover it anyway - most of the holiday clubs in this area (not the private ones) don't operate in the last week of the summer holidays, or before the first full (Monday-Friday) week of the holidays.

I find it easier to get one day off from work (as I can ask for leave weeks in advance) compared to a week, especially in/around existing school holidays.

Nicki

Your city friend will earn every penny of it daisy and you will not be in the slightest bit envious of her. I worked in a city law firm for 10 years and was paid very well but the demands were mental and it was not in the least family friendly. I worked from 9am to 1am at least 5 days a week and from 10 to 5 both weekend days. Holidays were regularly cancelled and I was not allowed to start my maternity leave until the day before I have birth to my first child and probably did 12 hours work per week every week of my maternity leave too. Very few women with young families continue in the city as lawyers and the price you need to pay to do so is IMO not worth the salary.

DevilsAdvocate1

daisiegg wrote: »

I suspect the schools that do not use all of the inset days will instead complete that training as after school sessions throughout the year, and will have slightly longer school holidays?

Mine have different inset days and don't get different holidays. All holidays are the same.

daisiegg

Nicki wrote: »

Your city friend will earn every penny of it daisy and you will not be in the slightest bit envious of her. I worked in a city law firm for 10 years and was paid very well but the demands were mental and it was not in the least family friendly. I worked from 9am to 1am at least 5 days a week and from 10 to 5 both weekend days. Holidays were regularly cancelled and I was not allowed to start my maternity leave until the day before I have birth to my first child and probably did 12 hours work per week every week of my maternity leave too. Very few women with young families continue in the city as lawyers and the price you need to pay to do so is IMO not worth the salary.

I am not at all envious. It is corporate law and she hates it. I love my job

IrishRose12

duchy wrote: »

So if you were offered the chance to twilight your training and have four or five floating days to take in term time -would that benefit your quality of family life ?

(Although I do find your wail a bit OTT as you surely knew the hours you'd be working when you went into teaching ? I could post an equally hard done by wail as a single Mum with a child with a disability working fulltime to keep us and still having to juggle home and work responsibilities as well as SEN meetings that the school insist must be within school "working hours" which finish at 3.30 -so despite the school having all these teachers who don't stop working at 3.30 - they won't accommodate a meeting after this time so I needed to take time off to fit in with the school's "hours". )

No if I was offered the chance I wouldn't accept it. Also our school isn't able to do twilight anyhow as teachers have directed time in the afternoons until 4.30. That's not including the teachers who run the after schools clubs in the afternoons which run from 3pm -4.30pm.
I myself as a classroom assistant work from 7.30 n the morning until 3.30 in the afternoon. However just because I finish at 3.30 doesn't mean I leave the school at that time. 9 times out of 10 I'm not leaving until 4pm as parents haven't picked their children up on time.

Also if you actually read my post you would have read that yes we choose to do the job we do.

I also work with disabled children (ranging from cerebral palsy, downs syndrome, autism and others) 2 days a week also so you don't need to compete with me regarding hard times.

Just because certain schools won't arrange meetings after 3.30 doesn't mean they aren't working.

One other thing someone mentioned was inset days not being used to write reports. It's up to the individual schools how they use their inset days well it is here anyway, Just because I said they do reports in one doesn't mean they have them all done. Teachers in our school are working on them that day, and then in the evenings at home for the rest of the week.

I have been offered and encouraged to go on to do teaching and have been offered to have it funded, however I wouldn't do that job for all the tea in China. The amount of paperwork that has to be completed for each child, and the amount of teaching that is expected to be done within a certain amount of time and certains targets to be met, is almost impossible now in schools. I'm a Classroom assistant and feel the stress, as do many other assistants across the country. Teachers get very little time to interact with the children these days, assistants have more interaction with them, and even that is at a push now some days as there's so much preparation etc needs to be done. There's times I myself take work home with me to be ready for the next day or two. Art stuff that needs cut out, Literacy things that need cut out for homework folders etc, games for the classroom that we have made up ourselves.

We can all cry about the work we all do, but no-one knows or can comment on what it is like until you are in that job yourself.

ViolaLass

IrishRose12 wrote: »

One other thing someone mentioned was inset days not being used to write reports. It's up to the individual schools how they use their inset days well it is here anyway, Just because I said they do reports in one doesn't mean they have them all done. Teachers in our school are working on them that day, and then in the evenings at home for the rest of the week.

That was me. The idea of using a training day to write reports seems bizarre to me. Staff should be undertaking CPD, not catching up on work.

(I'm a teacher, by the way, so by your definition I am allowed to comment.)

daisiegg

ViolaLass wrote: »

That was me. The idea of using a training day to write reports seems bizarre to me. Staff should be undertaking CPD, not catching up on work.

(I'm a teacher, by the way, so by your definition I am allowed to comment.)

Yes ditto. Never heard of that before!

duchy

IrishRose12 wrote: »

We can all cry about the work we all do, but no-one knows or can comment on what it is like until you are in that job yourself.

Indeed you can ....but I *have* worked as a classroom assistant -admittedly at secondary not primary level as you do to judge by your waiting for parents and cutting out remarks. So yes I can compare working in challenging roles in the private sector with working in education using personal experience .Frankly the work load of a TA is nothing compared with a teaching role however- as you say the paperwork is a heck of a lot less-you finish at 3.30-4pm and walk away. But we're not talking about support staff in this conversation - we're talking about teachers. As someone said to Daisy earlier in the thread- No-one is saying teachers work less hard than other graduates in comparable roles in the private sector - going in early, working late, working through lunch taking work home are common there too with holidays are usually only five or six weeks a year. Even allowing for lesson planning at home in the summer holidays etc most teachers will admit they still have more time off for holidays. I do believe the misconceptions about how easy or hard done by people are.....come from both sides. (but I also believe classroom assistants get the best of both worlds so have NOTHING to whine about !!)