Inset Days vs School Holidays

Janepig

gregg1 wrote: »

If you look at the amount of teacher bashing which goes on a lot of time on this forum, it is understandable why many teachers get exasperated by having to constantly defend themselves against the onslaught they get on here.

I don't think there's alot of teacher bashing on here particularly - it's a families board so by its nature there'll be a fair amount of questions or topics about schools. There may be people who think teachers have it easy, and the many teachers, retired teachers and TA's who are members here can post about how tough they have it. That's the whole point of a forum, people can post their opinions and other people can disagree with it. But I for one don't think there's teacher bashing - unless we're talking about my thread about Mr PE, in which case bashing is exactly what I'd like to do!!!

I think it's just the nature of this particular board means that schools are a fairly hot topic.

Jx

maman

gregg1 wrote: »

If you look at the amount of teacher bashing which goes on a lot of time on this forum, it is understandable why many teachers get exasperated by having to constantly defend themselves against the onslaught they get on here.

I have to agree.


I'm not talking about the genuine questions on how to approach a school or how to do the maths homework.:)


I find that at least a couple of times a year there's a thread about taking term time holidays. In order to justify themselves, the posters who are determined to demonstrate to their children that what the school says doesn't matter, invariably start teacher bashing. It's often about the INSET days or strikes or long holidays or short days or some other misconception. But then as Mr Gove's favourite occupation seems to be teacher bashing then parents and pupils aren't set a very good example are they? But then I don't think he cares too much about your average Joe's children either as he doesn't even care if teachers are qualified.

pollypenny

Agree, Maman.

It's the same old argument every couple of months. I can only remember one out and out 'basher', Melly, a bloke who worked with gas, then came back as an AE, calling Melly his wife.

duchy

gregg1 wrote: »

If you look at the amount of teacher bashing which goes on a lot of time on this forum, it is understandable why many teachers get exasperated by having to constantly defend themselves against the onslaught they get on here.

Can you quote exactly where I was "teacher bashing" please ?
I believe I see all sides -as a parent and a TA..... and having a lot of teacher friends. I stand absolutely by the fact it is completely unacceptable to have twilight training AND close the school for a day (mid term and midweek which I have direct experience of) so the teachers get a day off mid term but parents are picking up a day which could be tagged onto end of term when holiday club availability is more likely than a random day (and also may make a family holiday cheaper departing on that day as school would break up earlier to pick up on the other chestnut topic).

There is no reason for a school closure to have to be the same week as the twilight training except to appease teachers. So long as the total days add up to contractual hours over the year that day can be used for the good of the majority of service users not just the staff ! I don't see that as teacher bashing but as commonsense.

I do see using training days for report writing as inappropriate (the clue is in the name-"training"). Teachers are given free periods for report writing in well managed schools-if the SLT don't manage their resources properly that is a management failure and is depriving teachers of training time -which impacts on their performance (and career development).... and thus onto their students. School management bashing perhaps -but deservedly so-some schools manage their resources far better than others !

duchy

ViolaLass wrote: »

I thought duchy came across as fairly balanced on teachers (and I am one!). I've worked outside teaching too and while it is the hardest thing I've done, I don't think it's a thankless task. It's just more scrutinised than anything else I've done.

I do think any teacher who thinks it is a thankless task is in the wrong profession .
I had experience of one teacher who came from industry -I suspect thinking it would be an easier ride. He obviously hated teaching (and it was clear from his lessons I worked in that he wasn't very good at it) and was obnoxious to students and staff alike. He added no value to the school at all. You have to wonder where PGCE is going wrong to qualify people with poor people skills and no aptitude or vocation for teaching as a second career.

duchy

IrishRose12 wrote: »

We are not abusing anything. When exactly are these thing to be timetabled in?? As it's impossible to timetable things in that are required to teach in a school day, never mind anything else.
And we don't have poor management. The board of governors are fully aware of what each day is used for as is the Education board. We are not doing anything wrong in the slightest.


http://www.deni.gov.uk/index/schools-and-infrastructure-2/schools-management/79-school_governors_pg/schools_79_governor-roles-and-responsibilities_pg/schools_79_chapter-18-school-days_pg.htm#exceptional-closures-for-school-development-days_alink

Yet there is time every single week for a full one to one between teachers and TAs. I'd suggest that nice as that is to have it could probably be less frequent and the time used "better".

It's not a case of doing something "wrong" it's a case of schools not just doing what they've always done but taking a more proactive overview .

IrishRose12

duchy wrote: »

I do see using training days for report writing as inappropriate (the clue is in the name-"training"). Teachers are given free periods for report writing in well managed schools-if the SLT don't manage their resources properly that is a management failure and is depriving teachers of training time -which impacts on their performance (and career development).... and thus onto their students. School management bashing perhaps -but deservedly so-some schools manage their resources far better than others !

Ah but you see they are not called teacher training days here. They are Baker days and Exceptional closures. And also if you read the links that I posted you will see these actually do include admin duties.
Also tell me this. Where exactly do Primary schools get free periods do do this?? You tell me how in the name of God a Primary School teacher can be given a free period and I'll go and tell our Local Board and the Principal and see what they say. A primary school teacher has ONE class from 9am in the morning until 3pm in the afternoon. Then they have after school clubs, on the odd day they have to leave straight from school to go to a course, once a week there is a staff meeting AFTER pupils go home, which can last up to an hour or more. Then they need to prepare for class the next morning.
Big schools get free periods, but certainly never in a Primary school.
And judge all you like, however our schools are being managed EXTREMELY WELL.
The schools are resourced very well thanks very much and our schools are not being deprived of training time. As explained in my earlier posts if you bothered to read them properly, a lot of our training is done during a working school day AND a SUBSTITUTE teacher is provided.
Teachers and schools and management can only work with what the boards here give them and provide. We have no say in when courses can be provided or given. EVERY school in N.Ireland is the same in this situation be they Nursery, Primary, Secondary or Grammar. Yet funnily enough we still top the boards that the UK schools regarding test results etc. It's told on the news each year both locally and nationally.
So I question where your bad management comes from. As if we are so bad at that then we're doing a hell of a good job educating our children here in N.Ireland.

You don't see many of our schools closing here because of low standards in schools, terrible inspection reports etc do you??? And don't tell me that doesn't happen in England as I know well that it's true. And I also know about he over subscriptions in schools there also because parents don't want their children going to schools where the standards and results tables aren't good. That doesn't happen here either.
So tell me again about the bad management in our schools, the depriving of our teachers and staff in schools of training because of ONE DAY and all the other rubbish that has been suggested.
Not much stabbings, murders, drugs, children wandering off from their classrooms and down busy roads going on in ours schools here. ........... God the list goes on regarding things that happen in some schools in England hearing about it in newspapers, magazines and on the news.
When I think of Our child Protection officer and principal sitting in our school some nights until 8pm sometimes, on the phone to relevant services because of concerns for a child/children, yet recents news stories regarding schools not following up on concerns in England etc frightens me.

Now I'm not generalising schools in England etc and saying this happens in every school, I know it doesn't, and thanks be to God it doesn't happen, but it happens and it's more and more often. And people on here think that one day for report writing is depriving our teachers and staff??? I don't think so.

duchy wrote: »

Yet there is time every single week for a full one to one between teachers and TAs. I'd suggest that nice as that is to have it could probably be less frequent and the time used "better".

It's not a case of doing something "wrong" it's a case of schools not just doing what they've always done but taking a more proactive overview .

Are you on a total wind up???? A 15-20 meeting, in the Classroom assistants own time - not getting paid for, to get relevant information of what is to be done during the week. It's called PLANNING and is required in every Nursery, Primary and Further Education school. Now if the school you worked in DIDN'T do these, then I would raise questions as to how assistants know exactly what work they are expected to do?? Do they wing it? Guess? Do nothing??

I question if you have every worked in a school, or I question what kind of school you did/do work in, as THAT sounds like despicable bad management to me:eek:

Janepig

IrishRose12 wrote: »

Ah but you see they are not called teacher training days here. They are Baker days and Exceptional closures. And also if you read the links that I posted you will see these actually do include admin duties.
Also tell me this. Where exactly do Primary schools get free periods do do this?? You tell me how in the name of God a Primary School teacher can be given a free period and I'll go and tell our Local Board and the Principal and see what they say. A primary school teacher has ONE class from 9am in the morning until 3pm in the afternoon. Then they have after school clubs, on the odd day they have to leave straight from school to go to a course, once a week there is a staff meeting AFTER pupils go home, which can last up to an hour or more. Then they need to prepare for class the next morning.
Big schools get free periods, but certainly never in a Primary school.

Someone with a bit more knowledge of what exactly goes on in a primary school may be able to explain better than me, but certainly locally, and in DD/DS's primary school there are two "floating" teachers (they have a name, like PPE or something), one for Early years/KS1 and one for KS2, and for half (or possibly a full) day once a week, each class is taught by the floater (in DD and DS's case it's Mr PE from my other thread), while their normal teacher catches up with admin, planning, etc....

DD/DS's school is very large, and I imagine that a very small school wouldn't be able to run this system, but then they'd have alot less admin with much less kids; but all the schools I know of around here are all fairly large (DD/DS's is the largest in the county) and they all operate this system. One of my friends was looking for work as a newly qualified primary school teacher and this was the sort of work she was getting. This is in Wales, it may be different elsewhere.

Jx

globetraveller

duchy wrote: »

Teachers are given free periods for report writing in well managed schools-if the SLT don't manage their resources properly that is a management failure and is depriving teachers of training time -which impacts on their performance (and career development)..!

Perhaps Scotland is different. I would dearly love to have some free time to write my 33 reports. These have to be detailed reports and take an average of 2 hours each. No matter how well managed the school is, if your management team already have to teach, due to severe staffing shortages, then there is no leeway. Why are there staffing shortages? Not enough people want to teach these days for some reason.

GobbledyGook

In Scotland it's non class contact time or McCrone time that primary teachers get to do their admin/planning etc. Not enough to cover it all right enough, but that's what it's for.

Some schools, particularly bigger schools, have a teacher or two who is employed for McCrone cover and others cover it in other ways (a PE teacher or ICT teacher or assemblies for example).