Bought faulty car from trader on autotradr

tykesi

Search Google and you will land on variety of stories of doggy dealers

But we're talking about car dealers not doggy dealers??

I wonder if there are dodgy dealers in the doggy dealer world? Maybe that's for another day!

fivetide

arcon5 wrote: »

Not everybody who has dealt with a bad trader complains to the oft.

This.

Also the way things seem to have been quoted so far is that it is just 60,000 complaints on sales of 3.6 million.

That assumes each and every one of those 3.6mcars goes wrong!

I would say, looking at the stats from the warranty firms on most/least reliable, you are looking at about 75% of cars being fault free on average so that is about 1m cars you can expect a fault with.

That means 5% of people with faults from dealers end up complaining formally as thier case isn't sorted properly and as said by arcon5, a lot of people won't even bother.

The figure is a high level of complaint in any business and suggests many more cars are being stood behind by dealers who, lets be fair, shouldn;t have sold a car with a fault in the first place.

Happy for someone to check the maths but it certainly isn't as good for the dealers as being presented.


Also, back on topic for the OP - does the screen not work at all or are there sections that don't work? For parts of it not to work is pretty common as the wires fail and stone chips take their toll. A bit of wear there is to be expected in a 6 year old car.

motorguy

fivetide wrote: »

Also the way things seem to have been quoted so far is that it is just 60,000 complaints on sales of 3.6 million.

That assumes each and every one of those 3.6mcars goes wrong!

No. It shows that the vast majority of sales by dealers are of well prepared cars that customers have no issues with.

fivetide wrote: »

I would say, looking at the stats from the warranty firms on most/least reliable, you are looking at about 75% of cars being fault free on average so that is about 1m cars you can expect a fault with.

Yes. Thats "broadly" in line with the OFT report - they reckoned one in five cars developed a fault that required interaction with the dealer.

fivetide wrote: »

That means 5% of people with faults from dealers end up complaining formally as thier case isn't sorted properly and as said by arcon5, a lot of people won't even bother.

If you read the report, of those people who do report it to TS, only approx 1 in 5 go on to be unresolved - and thus would require the customer to go to court. Also dont forget that just because the customer "thinks" they are in the right, doesnt mean they are.

Dont forget a lot of people will ring TS early on in a fault process that goes on to be resolved by the dealer.

fivetide wrote: »

The figure is a high level of complaint in any business and suggests many more cars are being stood behind by dealers who, lets be fair, shouldn;t have sold a car with a fault in the first place.

These are complex, second hand cars, often out of manufacturers warranty and often sold at a fraction of their price new.

Faults do occur, and lots of faults dont appear before or at the time of sale. An engine management light coming on or a turbo failing one month in doesnt necessarily mean that that prospective fault was detectable at the time.

fivetide wrote: »

Happy for someone to check the maths but it certainly isn't as good for the dealers as being presented.

I think it shows that dealers as a whole are doing a good job, however there are a small minority who arent. Those minority need weeded out and dealt with.

As was said earlier, probably the bulk of the complaints are group around a small amount of "persistent offenders".

It would be wrong to tar ALL dealers with the failings of a relative few.

motorguy

fivetide wrote: »

Also, back on topic for the OP - does the screen not work at all or are there sections that don't work? For parts of it not to work is pretty common as the wires fail and stone chips take their toll. A bit of wear there is to be expected in a 6 year old car.

I would agree - if its total failure its likely to be wiring or a fuse.

fivetide

motorguy wrote: »

No. It shows that the vast majority of sales by dealers are of well prepared cars that customers have no issues with.

No it shows you were being a bit OTT with your figures about the number of cars dealers stand behind.

You brought up the 3.6m figure time and time again but the question of a dealer standing behind the car is only raised IF there is a fault so you were massaging the figures a bit there were you not?

Yes. Thats "broadly" in line with the OFT report - they reckoned one in five cars developed a fault that required interaction with the dealer.

Great. See above.

If you read the report, of those people who do report it to TS, only approx 1 in 5 go on to be unresolved - and thus would require the customer to go to court. Also dont forget that just because the customer "thinks" they are in the right, doesnt mean they are.

Back at you - it means the customer felt the service was bad enough to go to TS in the first place.

Just because a car dealer believes they were right, doesn't mean they are.... See how that works?

Dont forget a lot of people will ring TS early on in a fault process that goes on to be resolved by the dealer.

And as arcon5 said, a lot won't report a fault at all. Again, easy to knock that back.

These are complex, second hand cars, often out of manufacturers warranty and often sold at a fraction of their price new.

Really? Didn't quite understand what the used car market was. That for clarifying

Faults do occur, and lots of faults dont appear before or at the time of sale. An engine management light coming on or a turbo failing one month in doesnt necessarily mean that that prospective fault was detectable at the time.

Agreed. Although the last two cars I have bought from dealers have had faults that needed to be corrected - essentially work that should have been carried out and wasn't. Last time it was a split wiper. Easy to spot, cheap and easy to fix but it wasn't done. Very embarassing for them having banged on about their 'inspection' process.

I think it shows that dealers as a whole are doing a good job, however there are a small minority who arent. Those minority need weeded out and dealt with.

Small miniroty? I agree the rogues need finding out and more done but lets not forget there are some big dealers out there to include in these figures. Arnold Clark alone accounts for 130,000 used cars a year

As was said earlier, probably the bulk of the complaints are group around a small amount of "persistent offenders".

Very optimistic and no proof that is the case.

It would be wrong to tar ALL dealers with the failings of a relative few.

Agree but see above for the numbers.

Still off topic though Paul so bowing out. Do watch the dealer PR on the figures though eh

motorguy

fivetide wrote: »

No it shows you were being a bit OTT with your figures about the number of cars dealers stand behind.

You brought up the 3.6m figure time and time again but the question of a dealer standing behind the car is only raised IF there is a fault so you were massaging the figures a bit there were you not?

I'm merely pointing out that contrary to the opinions of some individuals on this forum, the vast majority of transactions with dealers result in no issues at all.

fivetide wrote: »

Back at you - it means the customer felt the service was bad enough to go to TS in the first place.

Just because a car dealer believes they were right, doesn't mean they are.... See how that works?

Yes. Absolutely. However i was pointing out that of all those escalations, the customer may not be correct in their view of the situation in quite a few.

fivetide wrote: »

And as arcon5 said, a lot won't report a fault at all. Again, easy to knock that back.

I think more and more people are aware of "their rights", and are likely to ensure they are being upheld. Interesting that in percentage terms complaints to TS has went DOWN.

fivetide wrote: »

Really? Didn't quite understand what the used car market was. That for clarifying

No need for sacasm. Selling 3.6 million brand new, for talks sake PCs will result in a certain percentage of failures in the first six months of ownership. Try selling 3.6 million used computers, varying from say, 1 year old to 10 years old and see how many faults come up. If a keyboard stopped working on a five year old laptop after a month, would you say the computer wasnt prepared correctly in the first place?

fivetide wrote: »

Agreed. Although the last two cars I have bought from dealers have had faults that needed to be corrected - essentially work that should have been carried out and wasn't. Last time it was a split wiper. Easy to spot, cheap and easy to fix but it wasn't done. Very embarassing for them having banged on about their 'inspection' process.

Yes. Sometimes its too easy to tick boxes on a checklist.

The one major complaint i had was on a BMW where the car was sold as Approved Used. This meant among other things a full BMW service history. Turned out it didnt - someone had ticked a check box without actually checking. They tried to make it my problem. I made it theirs.

fivetide wrote: »

Small miniroty? I agree the rogues need finding out and more done but lets not forget there are some big dealers out there to include in these figures. Arnold Clark alone accounts for 130,000 used cars a year

Indeed.

fivetide wrote: »

Very optimistic and no proof that is the case.

Wasnt me that said it originally. I would say if you did drill down in though, as per that OFT report, most problems are with smaller indies, and i would hazard a guess, small time traders who ignore / dont understand their responsibilities.

fivetide wrote: »

Still off topic though Paul so bowing out. Do watch the dealer PR on the figures though eh

Just providing an "alternative" viewpoint.

sharp910sh

Please don't fill up my thread with rubbish. Well the car is at the mechanic they can fix the steering. They cannot fix the heated windscreen. He said he will try source a second and windscreen (not possible) or give me the money back for the car.

So it seems like he is being reasonable.

motorguy

sharp910sh wrote: »

Please don't fill up my thread with rubbish. Well the car is at the mechanic they can fix the steering. They cannot fix the heated windscreen. He said he will try source a second and windscreen (not possible) or give me the money back for the car.

So it seems like he is being reasonable.

Whilst its a pity they cant get the heated screen working, its reassuring hes prepared to honour his obligations and refund if he cant sort it out.

arcon5

Well this has to be a first..

A well balanced discussion with opposing view points that hasn't turned in to a tarade of abuse and personal attacks .

Well done guys

nobbysn*ts

sharp910sh wrote: »

Please don't fill up my thread with rubbish. Well the car is at the mechanic they can fix the steering. They cannot fix the heated windscreen. He said he will try source a second and windscreen (not possible) or give me the money back for the car.

So it seems like he is being reasonable.

Reasonable, maybe? Question is, if you hadn't noticed it now, and hadn't complained, would he had given you your money back next winter when you turned it on? Also brings up the question, if it's only worth repairing for the price of a second hand screen, will he scrap it, sell it on at auction, or back on the forecourt, and see if the next customer brings it back or decides not to complain if they even notice? Still, good result so far though!