Voting in NI

falko89

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Countries with sensible sovereign immigration policies such as Canada and Australia can pick and choose the best candidates and exclude "useless eaters". I met a doctor recently who tried to get into Australia but was rejected because there wasn't a need for his particular skills in that branch of medicine.
Did we need car washers?

Exactly what should of been done here but no we just let any and every tom !!!!!! and harry in.

Suplex_Backbreaker

A.L.D.A wrote: »

For myself I would refer a Europe with power devolved to the regions. A large Switzerland would suite me just fine. In that scenario it is the clowns at Prime Ministers question time that are unnecessary. What is cheaper, 3 MEPs or 18 MPs?

Giving more power to make decision which impact your life over to a massive state over which you have next to no democratic control is not a good idea.

The EU is a great idea for politicians - which is why the mainstream parties all support it (UK and Ireland). Get yourself a nice position in Brussels and you are on the gravy train until retirement (when you get a fat Euro pension) with next to no accountability or public oversight, the dream of the typical scumbag politico that claws their way to the top.

The real issue is that unrestricted immigration of low skilled workers has been encouraged, resulting in suppression of pay and poorer conditions for those on the lower rungs of the working ladder. Immigration can be very positive for society if it brings scarce and needed skills to the economy. Not the case here though, it's all been about helping some people in business make more money and exploiting people from poorer economies.

This is at the behest of powerful and wealthy vested interests who exercise an unhealthy degree of influence over politicians who supposedly work for the general public. Those in the public who have been less than happy with this and spoken out against it have until now been pigeonholed as racists, xenophobes etc. and as a result pressure has built up to the point where it has become a highly contentious issue in itself which can no longer be ignored. Hence the rise of a more or less single-issue party like UKIP.

A lot of what Farage says is very sensible, though I'm not too sure about the rest of his party some of whom are clearly loonies. Also of course, if they get established they will be corrupted by money just like any other political organisation so I wouldn't count on them being any different to anyone else a decade down the line.

Ultimately though, as with just about everything, this comes back to the public not keeping a proper eye on politics and ensuring that the politicians work for the public good and not for those who will fill their pockets.

RikM

The immigration arguments always seem ridiculously short-sighted to me. We're talking about people who will either head out again in a few years, or who will settle, and become "local"... All of us have ancestors who were "immigrants", some more recent than others.

I guess I'm technically an import, having moved here from London (though my wife was local) *and* having a foreign father... and I watched jobs in my area filling up with (largely) Indian workers, as local talent could not be found to fill the jobs....

What are employers supposed to do? Take on someone local who can't do the job?

qwert_yuiop

RikM wrote: »

The immigration arguments always seem ridiculously short-sighted to me. We're talking about people who will either head out again in a few years, or who will settle, and become "local"... All of us have ancestors who were "immigrants", some more recent than others.

I guess I'm technically an import, having moved here from London (though my wife was local) *and* having a foreign father... and I watched jobs in my area filling up with (largely) Indian workers, as local talent could not be found to fill the jobs....

What are employers supposed to do? Take on someone local who can't do the job?

Importing unskilled labour costs the country money. The state picks up the costs associated with supporting the underpaid in housing benefit, health care, education , child benefit etc.

We are all made poorer by this, effectively subsidising of businesses in their attempts to minimise wages.

qwert_yuiop

RikM wrote: »

The immigration arguments always seem ridiculously short-sighted to me. We're talking about people who will either head out again in a few years, or who will settle, and become "local"... All of us have ancestors who were "immigrants", some more recent than others.

I guess I'm technically an import, having moved here from London (though my wife was local) *and* having a foreign father... and I watched jobs in my area filling up with (largely) Indian workers, as local talent could not be found to fill the jobs....

What are employers supposed to do? Take on someone local who can't do the job?

Skilled workers are net contributors. The low paid are not.

falko89

Also in regards to skilled and unskilled workers, something I am noticing almost every week now is some big shot company setting up shop in N.I, last week we had that big accountancy firm, and we have Arlene Foster saying how good this is for N.I etc, the problem is these big firms are bringing skilled jobs, we have a surplus of skilled roles in N.I and not enough people to fill the vacancies, check out recruit ni, ni jobs or any of the job websites, the skilled roles out number the unskilled by about 10 to 1.

While at the other end of the spectrum hearing about some company closing with XX amount of unskilled jobs lost seems a fairly frequent occurrence now also, we recently had that big call centre close, I've lost count of the amount of factories etc that have closed in the Mid Ulster area.

So we have unskilled roles going meaning more folk on the dole, less unskilled roles to begin with and yet we continue to let more or more unskilled folk enter the country who like it or not many get preference when it comes to jobs.

lazer

falko89 wrote: »

Also in regards to skilled and unskilled workers, something I am noticing almost every week now is some big shot company setting up shop in N.I, last week we had that big accountancy firm, and we have Arlene Foster saying how good this is for N.I etc, the problem is these big firms are bringing skilled jobs, we have a surplus of skilled roles in N.I and not enough people to fill the vacancies, check out recruit ni, ni jobs or any of the job websites, the skilled roles out number the unskilled by about 10 to 1.

While at the other end of the spectrum hearing about some company closing with XX amount of unskilled jobs lost seems a fairly frequent occurrence now also, we recently had that big call centre close, I've lost count of the amount of factories etc that have closed in the Mid Ulster area.

So we have unskilled roles going meaning more folk on the dole, less unskilled roles to begin with and yet we continue to let more or more unskilled folk enter the country who like it or not many get preference when it comes to jobs.

The accountancy firm isn't new and they announced 400 odd jobs over the next 3 years - but i'm skeptical about how "new" these jobs are.
Accountancy firms tend to take on 10 - 20 new graduates each year anyway

Cotta

I think due to last week's events voting within Republican/Nationalist circles will see an improvement whereas Unionism is likely to see a further slump.

Old_Git

Cotta wrote: »

I think due to last week's events voting within Republican/Nationalist circles will see an improvement whereas Unionism is likely to see a further slump.

If you mean Gerry (we haven't gone away you know ) Adams .
I dont think it will make any difference

The over 30s will remember .the troubles and will know that certain parties are not squeaky clean,and will know who to vote for and who to avoid and when to use tactical voting .
The under 30s are a different ball game as they have no memory off the troubles and will vote for whoever they want regardless.

Suplex_Backbreaker

Old_Git wrote: »

If you mean Gerry (we haven't gone away you know ) Adams .
I dont think it will make any difference

The over 30s will remember .the troubles and will know that certain parties are not squeaky clean,and will know who to vote for and who to avoid and when to use tactical voting .
The under 30s are a different ball game as they have no memory off the troubles and will vote for whoever they want regardless.

Unfortunately I can't agree - sectarian division is as strong as ever, as far as I can see.

Thankfully outright civil strife and violence has been massively reduced vs the days of the troubles but there is still a sense of two very different communities with religious markers denoting them - and little reconciliation over the ills and injustices of the past.

It was sad to see recent moves towards peace and reconciliation as tentatively voiced by Peter Hain being shouted down by the usual suspects.

Demographic change of course is still ongoing so I wouldn't be surprised to power shift slightly towards the 'green' end of the spectrum with the 'orange' side feeling ever more disenfranchised. Combine that with no attempt at reconciliation and there's all sorts of potential for trouble in the future.