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VestanPance

Lizling wrote: »

I'm playing around with splitting my long runs in half at the moment. A 7 or 8 mile run in the morning and another in the evening feels much more manageable than setting out to do 14 or 16 or whatever.

Sooner or later, I'll have to do at least some of them all in one go so that I know I can do it, but in the meantime, getting the miles in and still being able to train the next day with no niggles seems worth it.

You'll get some benefit from that, but it's not ideal.I take it you're training for a marathon? If so then the LSR is required for a few things.

One being your fuelling strategy. You need to be out for the duration to know what gels/drinks etc your body can handle. What brands? How many it can handle? What is your pre-long run food intake and how long you need to eat before going long?

Secondly clothing. What clothing is comfortable over the duration? There can be a huge difference in what works over a shorter run and what works over 20 miles or more.

Those aren't things that should be tested on race day, but in training.

Thirdly it's about training the body in being more efficient in burning energy for different sources.

If you're struggling from recovering then make sure you're running the long runs slowly enough. You shouldn't be doing them at pace, as that will impact your recovery and the quality of training you can put in the rest of the week. I've also found compression tights work well post long run to aid recovery. I also use a foam roller, which helps iron out any niggles, but be aware it is absolute agony to use.

Lizling

VestanPance wrote: »

You'll get some benefit from that, but it's not ideal.I take it you're training for a marathon? If so then the LSR is required for a few things.

One being your fuelling strategy. You need to be out for the duration to know what gels/drinks etc your body can handle. What brands? How many it can handle? What is your pre-long run food intake and how long you need to eat before going long?

Secondly clothing. What clothing is comfortable over the duration? There can be a huge difference in what works over a shorter run and what works over 20 miles or more.

Those aren't things that should be tested on race day, but in training.

Thirdly it's about training the body in being more efficient in burning energy for different sources.

If you're struggling from recovering then make sure you're running the long runs slowly enough. You shouldn't be doing them at pace, as that will impact your recovery and the quality of training you can put in the rest of the week. I've also found compression tights work well post long run to aid recovery. I also use a foam roller, which helps iron out any niggles, but be aware it is absolute agony to use.

Hi VestanPrince. Yes, I'm training for a marathon. it won't be my first, so I already have a pretty good idea about clothing and fuelling. I also have a foam roller and spiky massage ball.

My long runs are slow enough that I can easily hold a proper conversation, although actually not quite all plans advise that. Furman/FIRST has the long runs done faster, and several plans have marathon-paced or progressive long run sections.

I started this round of marathon training from a lower mileage base than planned and so didn't feel ready to jump straight into long runs of 12 miles+ (I could finish them, but they left me with heavy-feeling legs still for the next run). What I learnt from last time is that long runs are no good if it means you can't train properly for half the rest of the week.

Next weekend's got an 18 miler, and the marathon's not until April, so there's plenty of time left for learning to struggle through a few miles while glycogen-depleted as long as I don't do anything that'll get me injured.

VestanPance

If your long runs are leaving you in a condition that you can't do quality sessions through the week there's only two possible reasons. That you've either ramped up the mileage too quickly, or that you're running them too fast.

I ran 20 miles on Saturday morning, did a comfortable 9 miles at marathon pace the next day and had a hard pushing intervals session last night.

I'm very wary of any plans that tell people to do their LSR's at a fast pace, other than maybe pushing the last few miles at MP. Every single person I know who crashed and burned on the marathon and missed their target times all entered the race burnt out from doing those long runs too fast.

Getting to the start line injury free is the main thing.

Gonzo1987

Well what do you know, running with company isn't that bad! Infact, you could even say I enjoyed it.

Lizling

VestanPance wrote: »

If your long runs are leaving you in a condition that you can't do quality sessions through the week there's only two possible reasons. That you've either ramped up the mileage too quickly, or that you're running them too fast.

Agreed, and as I explained, it was the mileage. That's why I'm splitting the runs at the moment - it lets me train properly throughout the week without actually reducing the miles. No, I probably don't get all the fat-burning adaptations I'd get from doing them in one go, but it beats cutting them short.

It's working fine so far. I've gone from about 5k a week back in November/early December to 40 mile weeks with no ill-effects except for my toenails.



I've had good results training for a half using faster long runs, but I wouldn't try it for a marathon either. I do know people who it's worked well for, but they were people who already had plenty of endurance and only needed to work on the pace.

VestanPance

I've ran several marathons, ultras and Ironmans and never lost a toe nail or had one discoloured. I've no idea what you people do to your feet!

Gonzo1987

I have a black middle toenail! But this was down to my old ill fitting trainers, new trainers fit like a dream and no nail issues any more. (just waiting for the suspect one to fall off!)

Lizling

In my case, it's usually down to my second toe being much longer than my big toe so even wearing trainers a full size bigger than normal, it can get a bit bruised. This time though, it's my middle toe, so no idea!

I had the chance to get a 3rd opinion on this splitting runs stuff from a different coach who is less of the typical ultra-runner 'times don't matter, it's all about enjoying it' mindset and more of the 'if you don't puke at the end, you weren't racing hard enough' school of thought. This guy was of the opinion that any difference at all would be marginal. This isn't entirely surprising because his solution to everything is to run up more hills, and my commute (main way to split a long run) has his favourite hill in twice, so he's happy with that, lol.

Gonzo1987

Did another 4.5 miles this morning, I had been following a training plan to complete a half marathon in 3 hours and today the plan informed me that looking at my stats I should be able to do it in 2:30 so have adjusted my training accordingly. That was lovely to see, very motivating.

Planned 6.5 miles on Sunday. - I want to do this run first thing, should i eat before? If I do a morning run I normally just get up and go.

barbarawright

I can't do that far on an empty stomach but that's just me. Maybe half a banana just so you have something inside you?