NPD Mother - how do you get on with your siblings as an adult?

coolcait

Better_Days wrote: »

I'm pretty sure my Mother has NPD.
http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic48207.html

I've found a lot of info as to how this affects the children. But not so much about how it affects the interaction between siblings.

My sister was the Golden Child, I was the Scapegoat and my brothers were somewhere in between. I have a pretty good and open relationship with my brothers now, but am struggling with my sister. She recognises Mothers behaviour was/is horrible but wants to maintain contact with Mother, to I think, to try and make sense of her childhood and why she is so unhappy now. As a result she gets drawn into Mother's manipulations and goes along with Mother treating siblings differently.

The final straw for me has been that Mother traced some blood relatives and told only my sister and one of my brothers. Mother told them that she didn't want me or my other brother to know because she wanted to control who knows what.

When I found out I explained to my sister that by going along with this unequal treatment of siblings she is enabling Mother's behaviour and damaging the relationship she has with me and her brothers. However my sister has explained she was respecting Mothers wishes.

This sort of thing has been going on since childhood, and I can clearly recall as a child the surprise of adults when they cottoned on to how differently my sister and I were treated. My sister's perception is totally different though and doesn't recognise herself as the favourite. In some ways this is understandable as we all were deeply unhappy in a totally dysfunctional household. What a mess.

My sister wants things to go on as they are but I don't see how I can have a meaningful relationship with her on this basis as there is no trust.

If any of you are unlucky enough to have a NPD Mother could you share your experience of working through the fallout with your siblings?

Leaving aside the labels.

You believe that your mother manipulates your sister into seeing the family relationships/dynamics in the way your mother wants them to be seen. Your sister believes she is just respecting your mother's wishes.

You want your sister to go along with the way you see the family relationships/dynamics. You want her to respect your wishes in that. And you don't believe you can have a meaningful relationship with your sister unless she complies with your view.

That strikes me as manipulative.

If you can't find a way to have a relationship with your sister which allows her to make her own choices about your mother, then perhaps the apple hasn't fallen very far from the tree.

scottish_lassy

I had a NPD mother who died in 2011. She spent her life 'triangulating' between my sister and myself and we both spent our lives (right into adulthood) in self preservation mode. Consequently I do not have a relationship with my sister as we both had to compete all our lives to be in favour and therefore competing. Relationship is so dysfunctional that apparantly sister got remarried last year (after whirlwind romance) and as soon as the man was on the scene, I was dumped and have not yet been told she is married (discovered from others who saw it on facebook)!

Difficulty now is that she is supposed (again facebook information - BTW I am not on facebook with her) to be coming to my hometown for a visit in a few weeks and I have to act as if all is OK! I think so much damage has been done by our childhood that there is no trust whatsoever and therefore no chance of a normal relationship.

It's hard when you can't trust your own family - it affects all other relationships. All you can do is distance yourself as the situation will only get you worked up and stressed while your sister will probably be OK. Remember, it's their loss!!!!!

Better_Days

Mojisola wrote: »

There's plenty of other people who have had experience of mothers like yours -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3574175

Thank you lots for this link Mojisola - it's a very long thread so lots of info about the similar experiences of others. I've given up on Mother, but it is very interesting to read about how others have worked things through (or not) with their siblings - which was the point of my OP.

Better_Days

DomRavioli wrote: »

Just a word to the wise OP, being narcissistic, and having a full blown personality disorder are two separate worlds; not to say your mother does or doesn't have it, but it takes a lot of training and quite a long time to diagnose a personality disorder of any kind.

From the DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual, current version):
Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR, include:

Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

Other symptoms in addition to the ones defined by DSM-IV-TR include: Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends, has trouble keeping healthy relationships with others, easily hurt or rejected, appears unemotional, and exaggerating special achievements and talents, setting unrealistic goals for himself/herself.

Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, and an over-inflated sense of self-importance that is in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.

The biggest sticking point is being unrealistic in terms of expecting special treatment, which defines it from having narcissism as part of your normal personality; to me it sounds like your mother doles out treatment which is special, not expects to receive it, which wouldn't fit with the DSM - I'm not giving medical advice, just quoting my opinion.

DomRavioli big thanks for taking the trouble to quote the above and to analyse the situation. One of the biggest problems I have had is that it is very unlikely indeed that Mother will be diagnosed (if in fact she does have NPD) so my siblings and I have had to try and make sense of what has happened as best we could. I have sent my sister links regarding NPD and she has agreed that it makes a lot of sense to her too. However, she is of course coming at it from a totally different experience set so there are aspects on which we do not agree. She acknowledges I was the Scapegoat but does not see herself as the Golden Child.

I didn't list all of Mothers traits that I believe to be narcissist in the OP as I didn't want to bore you all to tears so I focussed on the aspect that I wished to explore - i.e. the effect of narcissism or NPD (if the case) on sibling relationships in adulthood.

Thinking back it seems to me that there were two ways that my Mother viewed herself as superior - one was through religion and the other was the fact that we didn't live in a council house (please, please my DH grew up in a council house and it is not a view I share). Both were issues which were bought up on a daily basis. Whether or not this pushes her into NPD I don't know.

The other thing that really sticks in my mind is the dreadful rages that Mother flew into if she was criticised or disagreed with (probably the same thing in her view). She once threw a draining board of dishes at me down the hall because I refused to dry them up. She threw all my clothes (and I mean all - she emptied the chest of drawers) out of the window following another disagreement. She knocked my few little bits of jewellery off the dressing table and hoovered them up (I wasn't quick enough to stop her). She told me she only wanted boys and not girls. She thrashed me and my brother. Both physical and verbal rages were daily occurrences. Again I am not sure if this is NPD or something else, but there is no doubt that it has affected us all.

Better_Days

coolcait wrote: »

Leaving aside the labels.

You believe that your mother manipulates your sister into seeing the family relationships/dynamics in the way your mother wants them to be seen. Your sister believes she is just respecting your mother's wishes.

You want your sister to go along with the way you see the family relationships/dynamics. You want her to respect your wishes in that. And you don't believe you can have a meaningful relationship with your sister unless she complies with your view.

That strikes me as manipulative.

If you can't find a way to have a relationship with your sister which allows her to make her own choices about your mother, then perhaps the apple hasn't fallen very far from the tree.

Thank you for this. This is precisely why I haven't pushed things with my sister until now. I didn't want her to feel that I was manipulating her in the same way Mother has manipulated us all over the years.

However, I am not sure how I can go forward with my sister in such a dysfunctional dynamic which has caused so much upset in the past - which was the point of the post - sorry if it wasn't clear. What are your thoughts on how to do this?

Own_My_Own

I simply broke all contact, both with my mother and sister. To be honest it's been the calmest year and a half of my life.

It has shaped me into a person who does not trust other people. I always wonder what their secret agenda is, even when there isn't one.

I have been a single parent since I was 24 and I am now nearly 41. My ex had an affair while I was pregnant with our second child. That was it for me. Trust no-one.

I have only 2 friends, who strangely are both the same age as my mother. I see these friends maybe once/twice a month.

Maybe if I had had a different upbringing I would have seen things differently.

But this is my life and I live it to best of my ability.

Better_Days

scottish_lassy wrote: »

I had a NPD mother who died in 2011. She spent her life 'triangulating' between my sister and myself and we both spent our lives (right into adulthood) in self preservation mode. Consequently I do not have a relationship with my sister as we both had to compete all our lives to be in favour and therefore competing. Relationship is so dysfunctional that apparantly sister got remarried last year (after whirlwind romance) and as soon as the man was on the scene, I was dumped and have not yet been told she is married (discovered from others who saw it on facebook)!

Difficulty now is that she is supposed (again facebook information - BTW I am not on facebook with her) to be coming to my hometown for a visit in a few weeks and I have to act as if all is OK! I think so much damage has been done by our childhood that there is no trust whatsoever and therefore no chance of a normal relationship.

It's hard when you can't trust your own family - it affects all other relationships. All you can do is distance yourself as the situation will only get you worked up and stressed while your sister will probably be OK. Remember, it's their loss!!!!!

scottish lassy thank you so much for sharing your experience, it is hard I know, I thought long and hard before posting, but I hoped that others in a similar situation might be able to offer some insights which have eluded me. Any you have!!

The hoarding of family information and secrets seems to be a trait in families affected by narcissim. Your experience regarding your sisters marriage sounds about par for the course sadly.

It is the lack of trust I find hardest to deal with. Like you it is my sister (and of course Mother) that I am unable to trust - and on the very rare occasions that I do see them - like with you they carry on as if everything was hunky dory.

Accepting that a relationship cannot be salvaged seems so final, but I think it is where I am with Mother, and may end up there with my sister. Was it a culmlative effect of factors for you, or did one incident lead you to decide you had had enough? No worries if you don't want to discuss any further, it can be very painful hauling out these things to look at again.

Better_Days

Own_My_Own wrote: »

I simply broke all contact, both with my mother and sister. To be honest it's been the calmest year and a half of my life.

It has shaped me into a person who does not trust other people. I always wonder what their secret agenda is, even when there isn't one.

I have been a single parent since I was 24 and I am now nearly 41. My ex had an affair while I was pregnant with our second child. That was it for me. Trust no-one.

I have only 2 friends, who strangely are both the same age as my mother. I see these friends maybe once/twice a month.

Maybe if I had had a different upbringing I would have seen things differently.

But this is my life and I live it to best of my ability.

Sorry to hear things have been so difficult for you. :(Trust is easily lost but much harder to build, especially coming from a background where narcissism has done so much damage. It can be very difficult making the transition from childhood where narcissism is an issue, to adulthood because the behaviour that preserves the child in that environment can make it difficult to form meaningful relationships as an adult.

And when, like you, you are further betrayed, it must be incredibly painful.

It isn't strange that your friends are around the same age as your mother. Well if it is I am strange too

You mention that things are calm for you now, and I think that it is one thing I crave, relief from all the drama, tension and emotion that narcissism engenders.

It sounds that for you breaking contact has given you some much deserved peace.

scottish_lassy

As you will know Better Days, when people are manipulating you, it is not always apparrant and sometimes distance suddenly puts things in perspective and you wonder how you ever fell for any of it!!

I must say I have NEVER trusted family - a lesson learned at a very young age! Rages were a regular event, as were the emotional bullets. What was cumulative though is the process of acceptance that you are not going to change any of them and it is you that will continue to be hurt. The lies, exagerations and boasting do hurt and I know this is all going to come to the fore again during the forthcoming visit.

I think you get to an age that poisonous people in your life need to be kept at a distance - even if they are family. That will give you the calmer life you crave. For the brief time I can't keep the distance I'm just going to try and keep a smile on my face, do alot of relaxation and keep out of the dramas (which will be inevitable!)

Better_Days

scottish_lassy wrote: »

As you will know Better Days, when people are manipulating you, it is not always apparrant and sometimes distance suddenly puts things in perspective and you wonder how you ever fell for any of it!!

I must say I have NEVER trusted family - a lesson learned at a very young age! Rages were a regular event, as were the emotional bullets. What was cumulative though is the process of acceptance that you are not going to change any of them and it is you that will continue to be hurt. The lies, exagerations and boasting do hurt and I know this is all going to come to the fore again during the forthcoming visit.

I think you get to an age that poisonous people in your life need to be kept at a distance - even if they are family. That will give you the calmer life you crave. For the brief time I can't keep the distance I'm just going to try and keep a smile on my face, do alot of relaxation and keep out of the dramas (which will be inevitable!)

There is so much in what you have said that I recognise in my own family. I know I have been manipulated in the past, both as a child and adult - mostly via guilt which devildog alluded too. Narcissists certainly know what 'buttons' to press. Ohh the boasting - so tedious.

The text that I have bolded is the realisation that I am coming to. It really comes down to the fundamental point of the purpose of human relationships. If they do not enhance and merely make one or both participants miserable then what is the point.

I last saw Mother at my brothers wedding (to my lovely SIL). I completely ignored Mother and her husband. It seemed to me to be the only way to avoid getting caught up in the web of manipulations again. We have communicated by letter since, but it is more of the same......as you rightly identify they will not change and contact only results in hurt.

I have seen narcissists described as emotional vampires, feeding on the hurt and upset (that they have usually created) of those around them - so your strategy of having a grin plastered on your face at the upcoming family visit will not give your Mother the satisfaction she seeks. She's not staying with you for the two weeks is she :eek:

It is very difficult to explain to people from non narcissistic families what it is like as it can sound both exaggerated and petty at the same time. The sideline into narcissistic fathers was very interesting too. As whodathunkit out, most of the info on t' web is from a female perspective, and as well as sibling difficulties I found very little info for my brothers as sons of a narcissistic mother.