NPD Mother - how do you get on with your siblings as an adult?

DFlights

I grew up with a narcissicistic father, so men do display many of the same traits, and I was the scapegoat. The only way I could help myself was to simply cut all contact with the man, and also with my older sister - golden child who was rapidly turning into the same sort of person as my father - and my mother, whom I strongly suspect has some form of personality problems herself, though not to the extent of my father's.

The manipulation was so subtle and clever that I really questioned my sanity, nearly had an emotional breakdown at thirteen, and still suffer from social anxiety and depression now, at nearly forty years old (I cut off contact at the age of 26).

No doubt the evil monster is going around telling everyone that I'm some form of devil child, but I no longer care. I honestly think he'd love it if I resumed contact, as he'd have his victim back. Even better that I'm overweight, struggling with depression, rent my house instead of owning it, have a relatively low-paid job and drive an old banger. He'd see it as some form of validation for his complete lack of faith in my abilities and lack of fiscal success, the only form of success he recognises. Trust me, he ain't getting the chance, when he dies, I'll feel nothing other than a strong sense of relief. And because I also run a small business in my spare time, I have to have my address details publically available, so am always just a little bit scared that one day he'll take it upon himself to come visit me in person to "have it out with me", or something along those lines. So far he hasn't but when and if he does, I'll not hesitate to shut the door in his face and call the police. Same goes for if my mother or older sister decide to try this tactic. As far as I'm concerned, I have no family.

So yes, men can be narcissists, can have long-lasting marriages and children (excellent opportunity for them to express their disorder, really) and can mess people up just as much as NPD mothers.

Better_Days

So sorry to hear that you had such a tough time DFlights. You have achieved a great deal, you have successfully broken away from damaging relationships (at a relatively early age), you have a job, a car, a roof over your head and are running a business too. Pretty good for someone who had such a difficult childhood, and it sounds like 'gaslighting' was one of your fathers more unpleasant tactics.

It does mess with your mind so that you come to question what is actually real.

This along with constant belittling, criticism, and back stabbing is a toxic combination for a child's developing personality and self esteem. So taking the decision to break away and actually following through requires a lot of strength.

System

Me and my brother... well we haven't spoken for years. Probably about 10 years.

DomRavioli

Better_Days wrote: »

DomRavioli big thanks for taking the trouble to quote the above and to analyse the situation. One of the biggest problems I have had is that it is very unlikely indeed that Mother will be diagnosed (if in fact she does have NPD) so my siblings and I have had to try and make sense of what has happened as best we could. I have sent my sister links regarding NPD and she has agreed that it makes a lot of sense to her too. However, she is of course coming at it from a totally different experience set so there are aspects on which we do not agree. She acknowledges I was the Scapegoat but does not see herself as the Golden Child.

I didn't list all of Mothers traits that I believe to be narcissist in the OP as I didn't want to bore you all to tears so I focussed on the aspect that I wished to explore - i.e. the effect of narcissism or NPD (if the case) on sibling relationships in adulthood.

Thinking back it seems to me that there were two ways that my Mother viewed herself as superior - one was through religion and the other was the fact that we didn't live in a council house (please, please my DH grew up in a council house and it is not a view I share). Both were issues which were bought up on a daily basis. Whether or not this pushes her into NPD I don't know.

The other thing that really sticks in my mind is the dreadful rages that Mother flew into if she was criticised or disagreed with (probably the same thing in her view). She once threw a draining board of dishes at me down the hall because I refused to dry them up. She threw all my clothes (and I mean all - she emptied the chest of drawers) out of the window following another disagreement. She knocked my few little bits of jewellery off the dressing table and hoovered them up (I wasn't quick enough to stop her). She told me she only wanted boys and not girls. She thrashed me and my brother. Both physical and verbal rages were daily occurrences. Again I am not sure if this is NPD or something else, but there is no doubt that it has affected us all.

Hi OP,

I do know where you're coming from My mother is exactly the same, but it is a lot less frequently than you have had to put up with, and has gradually improved over the last 12 years.

I do hope you stay strong, and never ever pay any attention to that kind of behaviour; hard as it is, its the way forward for most.

With regards to diagnosis, it would be up to your mum to request it through her GP, who will send her to a mental health practitioner for initial evaluation, and then go from there (could go anywhere from there). It is very difficult seeing someone you love do that to themselves and others, but it seems like you need a good rest from that behaviour.

Sending hugs and happy thoughts

Dom

Hope_Love_and_Charity

I have a sister with NPD. I discovered information on NPD only a couple of years ago and that was after web searching as I just knew there was something not quite normal (or ever had been) about her irrational rages. I think if was the day after having received 72 vitriol filled texts within the space of 24 hours. :eek:
The texts were a result of my refusal to validate her hatred towards her ex-husband's new girlfriend (ex-husband had been on his own for three years whilst sis had latched on to a new man virtually straight away). I was using my ever so rational brain; knowing as ever that rational, calm arguments never work. She just changes tack - normally picking up something I may have said in the past 'you have ALWAYS said people who have had XYZ experiences are bad' (not that I would every use descriptions like that but that didn't matter - there only had to be a grain of truth).
I had always described it as 'sis never thinks in straight lines' and 'she has a Rolodex brain which can instantly recall past hurts and slights and misdemeanors'.
Reading through the posts I was trying to think how it has affected me and I can honestly say I think I fear 'comeback' with any decision or direction I take. As in if I do something then something bad will happen to make me realise I really am stupid, pathetic, weak etc. It is as if she is screaming at me still - 'it's all your fault'; 'you don't know what its like...", " you have never had to...". And when I say scream I mean scream. It's hard to imagine it but I can hear her in my head whilst I type.
This hasn't stopped me making decisions but the fear is always there and I don't know if any of you other 'survivors' of NPD behaviour feel the same?

Better_Days

DomRavioli wrote: »

Hi OP,

I do know where you're coming from My mother is exactly the same, but it is a lot less frequently than you have had to put up with, and has gradually improved over the last 12 years.

I do hope you stay strong, and never ever pay any attention to that kind of behaviour; hard as it is, its the way forward for most.

With regards to diagnosis, it would be up to your mum to request it through her GP, who will send her to a mental health practitioner for initial evaluation, and then go from there (could go anywhere from there). It is very difficult seeing someone you love do that to themselves and others, but it seems like you need a good rest from that behaviour.

Sending hugs and happy thoughts

Dom

Aw Dom, thank you so much for your kind words. :A You are right, I do need a break from it all. In 'normal' families contact is a positive thing, but when it just causes misery (even I think for the NPD person whose unpleasant behaviour is triggered - and all those negative emotions surely must place stress on the body) it really is worth taking a step back.

My sister, to her credit, once challenged Mother about her behaviour regarding one of my brothers - apparently Mother finally admitted that she knew why they had fallen out, but could not admit she was in any way to blame. It seems that narcissists (or at least my Mother) see their behaviour reasonable. The phrase 'flogging a dead horse' comes to mind.

I hope things with your Mother continue to improve, and you both find a 'balance' that you can both tolerate without upset and drama.

Better_Days

Hope_Love_and_Charity wrote: »

I have a sister with NPD. I discovered information on NPD only a couple of years ago and that was after web searching as I just knew there was something not quite normal (or ever had been) about her irrational rages. I think if was the day after having received 72 vitriol filled texts within the space of 24 hours. :eek:
The texts were a result of my refusal to validate her hatred towards her ex-husband's new girlfriend (ex-husband had been on his own for three years whilst sis had latched on to a new man virtually straight away). I was using my ever so rational brain; knowing as ever that rational, calm arguments never work. She just changes tack - normally picking up something I may have said in the past 'you have ALWAYS said people who have had XYZ experiences are bad' (not that I would every use descriptions like that but that didn't matter - there only had to be a grain of truth).
I had always described it as 'sis never thinks in straight lines' and 'she has a Rolodex brain which can instantly recall past hurts and slights and misdemeanors'.
Reading through the posts I was trying to think how it has affected me and I can honestly say I think I fear 'comeback' with any decision or direction I take. As in if I do something then something bad will happen to make me realise I really am stupid, pathetic, weak etc. It is as if she is screaming at me still - 'it's all your fault'; 'you don't know what its like...", " you have never had to...". And when I say scream I mean scream. It's hard to imagine it but I can hear her in my head whilst I type.
This hasn't stopped me making decisions but the fear is always there and I don't know if any of you other 'survivors' of NPD behaviour feel the same?

Thank you for sharing your experiences Hope Love and Charity. I can identify with much of what you said. My Mother often said about my GC sister 'she doesn't hold a grudge'. Without delving too much into psychology it seems to me that in fact she was 'projecting' and she was trying to persuade herself that she didn't hold a grudge. But ohh she did.

She would throw back at me things I had said or done, days, weeks, months and even years back. She seems to have an elephantine memory for real or imagined slights, which she never seems to process and move on from.

Also she seems to have the capacity to think the worst if it gives an opportunity to assign blame. I used to take the bus to secondary school and sit upstairs. In those days passengers smoked upstairs, so I would come home smelling of smoke, so Mother assumed I smoked and this triggered rages.

On another occasion I was taken to hospital on a Sunday afternoon as I had an extremely painful thumb. Basically it was an abscess under the nail (I had a few of them over the years) but you couldn't see much. It had been brewing all week but Mother didn't take it seriously. We got to the hospital and saw the receptionist who asked what was wrong. I shew her my thumb. We had to wait ages as it didn't look as there was much wrong. As soon as the doctor saw it he sedated me and cut the nail off. But Mother went on and on for hours while we were waiting that it was my fault that we had to wait because I had shown the receptionist my thumb. I was only about 8 at the time.

I certainly recognise the 'It's all your fault' stock phrase. And hearing that screaming voice in your head. Thinking about it, I think it is one of the reasons I have avoided Mother more and more. I can't hear her normal voice without hearing the rages too. That voice triggers such negative associations.

With regard to your final question, as a child I certainly feared the rages, punishments and also the continual belittling, put-downs, snide remarks and teasing. She would say 'I'm laughing with you not at you'. The only way I have been able to cope with it is to gradually reduce contact. It has only been through that distance that I have been able to move away from her assessment of me so that now I no longer fear her, as I know I am now strong enough to walk away, never see her again, and not regret it one little bit. Not an easy journey though.

Hope_Love_and_Charity

Thank you Better Days. Having an NPD sis it bad enough but can't imagine how hard it is when it's your mum. For what its worth you are very eloquent and obviously have tonnes of emotional intelligence.
So many thing struck me about your words - not least the 'not being able to process and move on.' So true. It means they have a constant supply of slights.
I have gone 'very little contact' too. Will post more at some point - off to meet my lovely friend.
When people say to me 'blood is thicker than water,' I tell them it means absolutely nothing to me. People back off in surprise as they realise I am adamant about it and I'm known as a nice person:D.

DFlights

Oh, that's very true - it's extremely difficult to explain this disorder, and its dreadful effects, to someone who has had a "normal" upbringing - I've even had people tell me that there must be something wrong with me for me not to like or get on with my own family! As if being related by blood to someone makes them a nice person?
I find that I do have to grit my teeth against snapping back at phrases like that, and also at my MIL's pity for me (she seems to think that I'm losing out somehow, by not retaining contact with my blood relations).

You just have to keep telling yourself that they didn't experience it, that they might also have broken under the strain if they'd suffered family members with NPD, and that only you yourself could possibly know and understand the fear, the awful, grinding and constant terror of being in such a subtly abusive relationship. And really, that only you can know how best to deal with it.

Hope_Love_and_Charity

Oh yes DFlights -' subtly abusive' is just the right phrase. The link Better Life posted in first post was the article I stumbled across when searching for anything I could find to explain sis's personality. It rang so many bells - even though as is generally acknowledged - there are some differences.
I think if your life has been touched by anyone who has NPD then you read it and a wave of relief/understanding/awe/OMG washes over you whereas if you were to give that to someone who hasn't experienced NPD then the reaction is 'what are they gripping about - must be the [author] who is over-sensitive etc.' So there are those who 'get it' and those who should be very grateful for not having had the experience.
Better Life - obviously I'm coming from a different angle to you but with regard to my other siblings we are just a dysfunctional family which is a shame as our parents were lovely. There were five of us children (me, two bros and two sis). One bro is distant and not the sort to keep in touch; the other bro (lovely lovely man) died three years ago My elder sis is just typically bossy and it's the youngest who is NPD.
It must be hard for you because at least I get validation from bigger sis although that is about it! She is too wrapped up in own world to ever think how it affected me on a very personal level.
It's the children of NPD sis that I try and look out for. Two have left her (meaning they haven't left 'home', they have voted with their feet and left HER). One is 20 (left when he was 18) and the other is only 16 They don't get on - the only thing they have in common is knowing they have a difficult mother.
Hand on heart I don't think this is the result of their mother, they are just very different people. It is interesting because the 16 year old seemed to be both GC and scapegoat. Funny though as I realised not so long ago that heaven help the child who had been born a girl - sis has four boys.