Windows XP support ended - day 1

buglawton

Let me try to put it simply: Have you seen the prices for Windows licenses or Windows tablets? Exactly where are the mass market consumer-side customers supposed to come from?

Lum

closed wrote: »

The purpose of an operating system is to run applications.

That's not strictly true, the purpose of an operating system is to provide a bunch of standardised facilities for applications to use, e.g. access to files on the disk or to display things on the screen.

Exactly what those facilities are has varied over time. Way back in the day things we take for granted in a modern OS either didn't exist, or were third party applications, things like connecting to the internet for example. These days we don't think twice about the fact a newly installed OS comes with the ability to connect to a network and has a built in browser, even if you only ever use it to download another browser.

Hell when XP came out, it didn't even support wireless networks, which is why wireless adaptors so often come with terrible software to manage that part. MS patched that in for free with XPSP2, along with a whole bunch of other stuff that they probably could have sold as XP Second Edition or whatever. People still moaned that XPSP2 was huge and bloated.

The new stuff in Win7 will eventually be considered normal, such as installing correctly to an SSD without third party software, seriously aggressive disk caching for faster startup, and a security setup that means home users don't need to run with admin rights all the damn time.

We'll probably also be having this same argument when Windows 9 comes out.

debitcardmayhem

Lum wrote: »

snipped.......
We'll probably also be having this same argument when Windows 9 comes out.

Short-termism is not an option I hope to last as long at least until Windows Snow Yeti(Windows 2525) comes out (when they have bought out Apple and Oracle):rotfl:

securityguy

buglawton wrote: »

Let me try to put it simply: Have you seen the prices for Windows licenses or Windows tablets? Exactly where are the mass market consumer-side customers supposed to come from?

It's Microsoft's product, and they can charge what they want for it. Unless you're a big shareholder, you don't get to have an input to that. They could decide that, as Apple have done, they'd rather make margin on fewer, more expensive sales. They're not a charity, and if they don't want to sell it cheaply for the benefit of (competing) application vendors, that's their call. An Oracle license is quite expensive (to put it mildly) compared to the cost of other SQL databases, and yet Larry is still able to buy plenty of private jets. MS could, if they so chose, give up on home and SME and focus solely on enterprise. I'd argue they're getting pretty close to that position: they're clearly uninterested in consumer products, and a lot of their product strategy is focussed far more on CIOs than on home users.

andydiysaver

robatwork wrote: »

Wasn't expecting an exposition on Elite but it was a pleasant reminisce.

I bet understanding the code Elite used wasn't quite as tricky as docking that damn ship!

try firing on the port first, get those annoying vipers good...then you know what tricky is....

prowla

securityguy wrote: »

Microsoft's problem, in terms of its internal politics, was that the Windows division always saw itself as the heart of the company, and Gates and then Balmer supported them in that. So the basic purpose of the applications was to sell more Windows licenses, and Microsoft saw its main driver as getting Windows on as many desktops as possible. The OSX/Office deal was the exception, but it was an aberration signed to try to fight off the DoJ monopoly investigation, and Microsoft made it as difficult as possible for Apple to get anything useful (the benefit to Microsoft of Windows on OSX was that it staved off the claim that they had a monopoly).

That was why Microsoft made the stupid decision to not sell the (long done and dusted) port of Office onto iPad, because they assumed that every license sold would be a Windows license (in this case on Surface) not sold. And it's why the Office 365 web service is so hobbled.

Under their new leadership they have realised two vital things. Firstly, that their real crown jewels are in Office, and whether Office runs on Windows, Linux or iOS/OSX is neither here nor there, a license sale is a license sale. People are a _lot_ more locked into Office, both in terms of file formats and in terms of usage and training, than they are into Windows. And secondly, that the nightmare for Microsoft would be people deciding to adopt whatever Office-alike they could get for their iPad and them deciding that actually, they'd be OK with running that on their lap/desktop as well. Losing both the Windows _and_ the Office lock-in would be disastrous.

Hence Microsoft will now sell Office on anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they shipping it on Linux, too.

They're not going to ship XP, for a whole bunch of reasons to do with OEM relations, drivers, branding and face. The "lightweight" thing is a red herring: with memory at buttons per gigabyte, there is no Intel platform shipped in the last five years which can't run 8 (or couldn't given drivers, which is a different issue), and no commercial enterprise has the slightest interest in providing operating systems for obsolete hardware that hasn't been made since the Bush presidency, free, low-cost or otherwise.

But they are going to ship Office on other platforms, which will render Windows a minor side-show.

Office has been available for Mac OS X for over a decade, and indeed the first GUI-based release was on the Mac back in the 80s!

I'm not sure MS will release Office native on other platforms; they've gone all Cloudified, to separate the app from the OS (and which, incidentally, partly explains the trimming down of the user interface). I don't quite know where the IOS release fits in, as where do you store your files?

Incidentally, I do have Microsoft Write for the Atari ST, though they never ported full Word.

Robisere

Have not read the rest past Page 1 here, but here is the truth: -

the government has, as usual, left things till the last minute and begged M$ to support XP for all the NHS and gov. departments that still run it. Same applies to certain large corporations in Britain, lots of businesses still running an antique operating system, despite all the warnings M$ issued.

M$ complied and pledged to support these concerns for 12 months, but - repeat, but - it only applies to those commercial organisations and gov. departments that have requested and paid for this support. Home consumers get zilch, but why should they expect anything different? I am no lover or supporter of M$, but this is a very old o/s which was paid for a long time ago, count how many more o/s's M$ has brought out since then.Would you buy a car, or any product, and expect the vendor to keep repairing and/or renewing it for nothing? The fact is that anyone running Windows XP now is asking for trouble. There will be no more Windows Security Updates. This means that no Internet Security or Anti-Virus programme, can work with XP. The AV databases are not only out of date, they no longer exist, at least for the home consumer.

Looking for Windows 7? Good luck, M$ stopped manufacturing it a while ago! Those companies with stocks , can now charge what they want for it. Have a 7 disc and want/need a COA License? CAREFUL! There are cowboys all over the place on E bay and Amazon, selling Key Codes by post and email. You don't get a proper, genuine, Microsoft COA sticker with it. And it is illegal to sell a M$ Key Code (for any Microsoft operating system) without the correct paper sticker COA License.

It will soon be I Told You So time ....

On your own heads, be it!

securityguy

prowla wrote: »

Office has been available for Mac OS X for over a decade, and indeed the first GUI-based release was on the Mac back in the 80s!.

Continuing development was part of the settlement of the GUI court case in 1997. http://goo.gl/cnRF

securityguy

Robisere wrote: »

There will be no more Windows Security Updates. This means that no Internet Security or Anti-Virus programme, can work with XP. The AV databases are not only out of date, they no longer exist, at least for the home consumer.!

That's simply nonsense: the pattern files are being actively maintained and released. And by Microsoft, too, as MSE has been extended to April 2015. But third-party AV suites can be updated for XP for as long as the vendors (or volunteers, in the case of ClamAV) want to.

Jivesinger

Robisere wrote: »

And it is illegal to sell a M$ Key Code (for any Microsoft operating system) without the correct paper sticker COA License.

This is clearly untrue.

When Microsoft sold Windows 8 Upgrades (and I imagine it's still true with 8.1) you just got an email with a product key. No sticker, nothing physical at all... and this is when buying via Microsoft's own Upgrade Assistant, not from ebay or whatever.