parking eye county court claim

lewis666

will send you the Def by email in the next fifteen mins with details of my personal email, because i don't seem to get alerts when someone posts on this thread.

I can't advise you as a solicitor officially, but if you need to ask any questions about Court procedure, I should be able to answer them "off the record".

Yes, you log back into mcol and there's a button which is for putting in your defence clearly marked. The one I'm sending you has the main arguments which appear to have worked against PE [from the prankster website], but i've taken out the bits that apply only to my dad's case.

You can throw in your own factual arguments if they apply - if the sign wasn't visible, if they've got a detail wrong, etc. You're what's classified as a LIP [a litigant in person], so the court isn't looking for absolute precision, just a rough idea of why you're saying that you shouldn't pay and why it's unfair. In a lot of ways that's better than having a sol, because the judge sees the imbalance between you and the big aggressive parking company.

Once you put the defence in, both parties will get sent what's called a Directions Questionnaire. It's an easy form that once you send it to the Court, the Court sets a series of directions, things like "you must put in a witness statement by this date" "the trial date is set for this date" It's a bit intimidating at first until you realize that they're all straightforward dates and straightforward tasks.

There's a decent publication by the MOJ explaining the stages leading up to a hearing: If you google: guide to bringing and defending a small claim judiciary, you should findit ok. I would link it, but i'm not allowed to do that as a newbie.

Gareth

ester

Thank you Gareth im very grateful,quick question for anyone out there it says on my court claim that the parking charge was issued on the 17/01/ but when looking through receipts we were there on the 13th?

da_rule

If the PCN was issued through the post then the 17th may be the date that the PCN was printed off. On the original PCN there should be a reference to the date you actually parked.

Coupon-mad

ester wrote: »

No i havent formed a defence please can someone help me i just don't know where to begin

But as already said, the NEWBIES thread shows you example defence wording, and what happens when. What is the point of someone (kind offer BTW) writing a defence for you that you haven't researched and don't understand, and (more importantly) could not explain to the Judge in court? And as you are on this forum I must assume you've read all the links about small claims that I put in post #5 of the 'NEWBIES please read these FAQs first' top sticky thread? Tells you what happens when, a link to bargepole's info about the paperwork & procedures, & shows you defence wording and cases won recently (loads and loads).

As you have been on this forum for more than a few days now and have been directed to read up on the matter, I hope you have read lots of other PE court claim threads on here, and some of the zillions of cases on pepipoo which you must also have found when Googling to find help on this issue?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

...and when you have read a few dozen of the PE Court case threads on that forum, you will know from other people's threads, that when you complain to the retailer or the landowner who hopefully tell PE to cancel it, PE will write and still demand you pay them £50 (sob sob) because you dared to ignore them? You have seen that, yes/no? Ready for it? No? Please read more threads if not. DON'T PAY IT UNLESS YOU LIKE BEING A VICTIM OF SCAMS.

I also hope you know all about the Cambridge test case due to be heard soon (date not to be shared on forums)? Tons of threads about that and very relevant for you.

You will have seen all that on the Parking Prankster's blog I hope, you must have read loads about this by now and surely are not relying on someone writing a defence for you without you reading up on the issues first. I write defences for people as well and would be pleased to help you ONLY once I know you have read all that you can, including the Parking Prankster's Guide to defending PE small claims (one of the many links in post #5 of the NEWBIES sticky thread). I will always help people who help themselves; there is no point me - or anyone else - just writing you a defence otherwise!

Please pm me once you have read, say, thirty other PE small claim cases on pepipoo (going back several pages on the forum linked above, searching them out and reading what happened) and the Prankster' Guide, AND all the links I give people in the NEWBIES thread post #5 about small claims. If you do pm me I will help you, no problem, if you have informed yourself by reading up on the matter and yet still need a defence, and later on with a letter to send the Court to ask for POPLA instead.

Please read other threads on pepipoo by looking for any about 'Northampton court papers'. Hundreds on there, loads to learn from, decent defences, cases won, stupid £50 offers turned down 'no deal' and all sorts of generally good outcomes from people keen to fightback.

Finally, you will hopefully have been reading all other similar threads and will have seen this case where I wrote two letters for the OP, one for him to offer £20 (I wouldn't, but he 'wanted it to go away', oh dear) and the other to the court asking for POPLA instead?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4944397

Guess what happened...you won't be able to. Read his thread. Educate yourself about how to defend and how others have approached this common harassment.

What success has your complaint to the retailer/landowner had so far? If you haven't realised that's an option or tried even a B&Q facebook complaint yet or twitter, or email, then you clearly haven't read enough yet even though that's among the advice you have already had.




P.S. if you had read the links in the NEWBIES thread you would already know you do not 'hear back' after acknowledging a claim. You need to move straight on to working on a defence that YOU understand.

liseylou

coupon-mad wrote: »

what is the point of someone (kind offer btw) writing a defence for you that you haven't researched and don't understand, and (more importantly) could not explain to the judge in court?

This is probably the most relevant piece of advice everyone should read before compiling their defence!!!

lewis666

Hi,

I'll repeat what I said above - the judiciary treat LIPs in a different way than they do clients with lawyers. A generic Defence was offered to Ester based on previously successful Defences, who accepted it and is adding a few details of her own. The judge will take the case on its own merits, and I've offered to help her on the CPR by private email, all free. I've been working in civil litigation for the last 12 years, so she's ahead as it stands.

It's not an offer I'd make unless I thought she needed precisely that kind of help. I don't think everyone can read up on this stuff on their own or take up the fight on their own, even tho it's not a particularly esoteric area of law. Some people just don't have the time, or inclination...

Gareth

liseylou

lewis666 wrote: »

Hi,
Some people just don't have the time, or inclination...

I totally agree Gareth, after spending hours, perhaps days trying to understand the process, whilst compiling my defence. Which has all been extremely stressful and caused much grievance between me and my hubby, who would have preferred to pay 'and be done with it'.

Without the support of MSE and Pepipoo, I wouldn't have known where to start and would have caved like many others (including my friends who parked with us on the day).

PE and other PPC's rely on those that pay up as they do not want the hassle of defending their claim. For me (and many other forum members) it's a statement of principles..... Why should they get away with their bullying tactics!!

Coupon-mad

lewis666 wrote: »

I'll repeat what I said above - the judiciary treat LIPs in a different way than they do clients with lawyers. A generic Defence was offered to Ester based on previously successful Defences, who accepted it and is adding a few details of her own. The judge will take the case on its own merits, and I've offered to help her on the CPR by private email, all free. I've been working in civil litigation for the last 12 years, so she's ahead as it stands.

It's not an offer I'd make unless I thought she needed precisely that kind of help. I don't think everyone can read up on this stuff on their own or take up the fight on their own, even tho it's not a particularly esoteric area of law. Some people just don't have the time, or inclination...

That's great to read, Gareth. I would also have sent her a free defence but I now only do so once a poster has read up on it as I deal with so many, I can't hand-hold them all the way through the process (although I have had some success with a letter to the Court after N180 DQ stage, asking for an Order for POPLA as the bespoke ADR, which basically grabs certain victory from the jaws of possible defeat). My only concern now will be that this OP understands her defence enough to state the grounds in court, unless you were planning to act as lay rep for her, as some posters here do?

Please stick around on this forum, Gareth, there are like-minded posters here and an interesting and ever-changing area of law including a PE test case heard yesterday by HHJ Moloney QC in Cambridge, which is likely to go to the Court of Appeal whatever the written judgment outcome. All very relevant to include in any PE defence.

lewis666

No problem, Coup. We're all on the same side.

The short answer to your main question is I draft defences / particulars for clients all the time on the basis of limited information and where I don't also contract to do the hearing; it's happening more often because of the cutbacks in LA funding and the funding of the law centres / CABs.

In those cases, the client is a litigant in person who tells the judge at the hearing that they had a lawyer help with the drafting, but they're unfamiliar with the law. It's then up to the Claimant to then prove the case but the Defence arguments are put in the judge's mind. If you get an iffy judge, then he'll be swayed by a fast talking Claimant lawyer, but most of them know their own mind on these kind of issues [as you can probably see from the reported cases on the PP website].

This practice has been standard for many years in repossession cases, where you can get advice for the defence from a law centre, but not representation.

I've talked to Ester since and she did try to read up on it, but really it's not her thing, and never will be. I can understand why you pick and choose who you help, however, if your overall aim is to get the best ones through so you can solidify the law and run PE out of town. So good luck.

Gareth

ampersand

Hello Gareth and c-m,
-re:ester.

I'm certain a number of us read[past tense] ester and, in so doing, 'read' ester, each of us trying to strike the chord that would chime, encourage effectively, simplify.

None of this is ever judgmental, ester, and I[can't speak for anyone else, après tout:-)]always try to take timid posters kindly/gently/fiercely through. I'm probably wrong a lot of the time, too wordy in attempting to be kind and have had snipey comments from one other poster in particular[now on Ignore].
My input is minimal[matching my recent knowledge, born only of my own PE 'parking events'] compared with the wonderful long-standing experts here who give of their time and themselves again and again, for hours every day.

But some people just aren't wired for deep reading or prolonged concentration, nor are they fired by atd, detective work, nit-picking, justice, semantics or a sense of urgency[they fire me]. This does not make their case weaker, nor support less merited, but it does make them harder to help.

ester - I am so glad that you and Gareth have spoken and set a defence you can manage[am I right in inferring this further step has been taken, Gareth?] I know you've tried hard with this, ester.

I'm almost off now, to visit family until mid-June and I'll be looking for your good news posts from the other side of the world!
My one BIG, FINAL REMINDER which you still haven't updated for us is this:
GO BACK TO B&Q - on facebook, in person, on the phone - ALL 3 AND COMPLAIN. YOU WERE A CUSTOMER. PE ARE NO LONGER [MIS]'MANAGING' B&Q CARPARKING. THEIR MOCK INVOICE MUST BE CANCELLED/WITHDRAWN, DITTO THEIR CLAIM.

[look back at #26 and c-m's expert reminder#35.]

ester, you can do this. Please try, knowing that you have everyone's support. In the meantime, I hope your sound defence is in, deadline met[28th perhaps?]

Gareth, hope we'll have a fine blow-by-blow account of your dad's success in due course, too.
#
ester- this is a first report on the test case in Cambridge we have all been waiting for:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/