Ovivo still has our money

Techhead_2

pdoherty76 wrote: »

Does it matter? If they aren't paying the network then all the extra sign up money should still be available. Where is it?



Right, so if it has gone bust due to finances then where is all the details about administrators? Who are creditors meant to contact?

Ovivo have not said they have gone bust, they simply said they closed down. But it appears they have done a runner with all the lovely £20 notes that they and MSE persuaded people to part with in the last few days.



Gee, if only some administrators will tell us. Where are they?



Just a guess? Martin Lewis emailed a deal for FREE mobile phone use to 9 million people and then went on national TV to recommend it.



Doesn't it trouble you that we are forced to guess? Why, it's almost as if the company has vanished without saying anything.

This is all guesswork and sarcasm, guesswork is a very shaky base to build an argument on and sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I think we all get that your upset or outraged, but if you want to make practical effective progress with your complaint then you need to take a clear headed and logical approach.

beansy

Does it matter if you haven't activated the sim yet if you want to try for a refund please?

pdoherty76

grayme-m wrote: »

Could you please share the proof they were insolvent.

They must have been or we would be getting refunds. That is the point of the thread, do keep up.

pdoherty76

Techhead wrote: »

This is all guesswork and sarcasm, guesswork is a very shaky base to build an argument on

Where is the guesswork? There are only 2 options. Either they were solvent or they weren't. If they weren't then they traded while insolvent. If they were then where are the refunds?

and sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I always talk to people on their own level.

I think we all get that your upset or outraged, but if you want to make practical effective progress with your complaint then you need to take a clear headed and logical approach.

I am not upset or outraged in the slightest. I only ever gave Ovivo £15, 8 months ago. I got plenty of use out of it and even moved some credit to my PSN account.

grayme-m

pdoherty76 wrote: »

They must have been or we would be getting refunds. That is the point of the thread, do keep up.

So no proof then.

pdoherty76

grayme-m wrote: »

So no proof then.

So you think they were solvent.

That means they have just done a runner with all those £20s that MSE got them. Do you see?

(Hint: Insolvent is the better option and being kind to them.)

grayme-m

pdoherty76 wrote: »

So you think they were solvent.

That means they have just done a runner with all those £20s that MSE got them. Do you see?

(Hint: Insolvent is the better option and being kind to them.)

I didn't say they were solvent, you said they were insolvent, hence I asked for your proof.

Why would Ovivo refund me? From memory, I got a SIM from them for a £15 fee which came with £15 of free credit; clever Ovivo.

pdoherty76

grayme-m wrote: »

I didn't say they were solvent, you said they were insolvent, hence I asked for your proof.

Why would Ovivo refund me? From memory, I got a SIM from them for a £15 fee which came with £15 of free credit; clever Ovivo.

Actually, having read about Cognatel today, I am convinced that Voda made sure the plug was pulled on Ovivo because the free model was going to impact on their retail business.

It seems this thread was too subtle for you. I will try and break it down for you:

There are only 2 options...

1) They are insolvent - hence they traded while insolvent

2) They are solvent - hence they took lots of £20 and those customers got a useless sim card.

If you can't see that either of those options is bad then I can't help you.

Let's try a specific example:

Fred Bloggs bought a sim from ovivo on 19th March for £20. A few hours later they closed.

Where is Fred's £20?

grayme-m

pdoherty76 wrote: »

Actually, having read about Cognatel today, I am convinced that Voda made sure the plug was pulled on Ovivo because the free model was going to impact on their retail business.

It seems this thread was too subtle for you. I will try and break it down for you:

There are only 2 options...

1) They are insolvent - hence they traded while insolvent

2) They are solvent - hence they took lots of £20 and those customers got a useless sim card.

If you can't see that either of those options is bad then I can't help you.

Let's try a specific example:

Fred Bloggs bought a sim from ovivo on 19th March for £20. A few hours later they closed.

Where is Fred's £20?

You are coming across rather rudely.

I agree you can't help, me, you wrote:

pdoherty76 wrote: »

But I think Ovivo should be held responsible for what was clearly trading while insolvent.

I asked for proof as it wasn't clear to me, you appear unable to provide this and are now giving alternative potential scenarios.

I only have access to the company's 2012 accounts so do not know to what entity the debt in their 2012 accounts was owed. For all I know the 2013 accounts could show a positive asset position.

Even if it wasn't positive, it may have been reducing the debt. It is not illegal to trade if insolvent, however (from companyrescue.co.uk) 'the directors of the company may become personally liable to contribute to the company's assets and help meet the deficit to unsecured creditors if the company's financial position is made worse by the directors continuing to trade'.

I personally don't believe I am a creditor.

Fred's £20 is with Fred, he's done a chargeback or Paypal claim. Jim's a bit miffed though, he got his SIM last month so cannot justify a claim. I'm outraged, I am going to have to spend £32 over the next two years on the new contract I've been forced to take out.

FWIW, I wonder if they were struggling to make it work, hoping that expansion would turn it around. Then this 'opportunity' came along and it was considered a good way out. I do not view the lack of any communication from Ovivo in their favour.

pdoherty76

grayme-m wrote: »

You are coming across rather rudely.

I agree you can't help, me, you wrote:



I asked for proof as it wasn't clear to me, you appear unable to provide this and are now giving alternative potential scenarios.

I only have access to the company's 2012 accounts so do not know to what entity the debt in their 2012 accounts was owed. For all I know the 2013 accounts could show a positive asset position.

Even if it wasn't positive, it may have been reducing the debt. It is not illegal to trade if insolvent, however (from companyrescue.co.uk) 'the directors of the company may become personally liable to contribute to the company's assets and help meet the deficit to unsecured creditors if the company's financial position is made worse by the directors continuing to trade'.

I personally don't believe I am a creditor.

Fred's £20 is with Fred, he's done a chargeback or Paypal claim. Jim's a bit miffed though, he got his SIM last month so cannot justify a claim. I'm outraged, I am going to have to spend £32 over the next two years on the new contract I've been forced to take out.

FWIW, I wonder if they were struggling to make it work, hoping that expansion would turn it around. Then this 'opportunity' came along and it was considered a good way out. I do not view the lack of any communication from Ovivo in their favour.

You are clearly incapable of understanding any kind of subtle point. Look at my OP. Does it appear from that, that I think they were insolvent?


Fred is out of pocket by £20. Yes, paypal or visa may pay him back but should that be their responsibility or should it be Ovivo's?


We know for certain that ONE of the two options was a fact. Either they were insolvent or they were solvent. In either case, taking Fred's £20 and not giving it back was wrong.


And doing the vanishing trick they have done is even worse. The CEO has even closed his own personal facebook.