23 minute overstay with Parking Eye

playgoer

Thanks to ampersand for making me laugh out loud! And to Colliescarerfor the pep talk. It's hard sometimes battling these people - easier to give in and get on with your life, as you all know, or you wouldn't be out there helping. I'll get the letter done and show you - is that OK? (And I'll need some advice about the fact that it's a late appeal - what do I say (or not say) about that?)).
How long these appeals ususally take? I ask because I've got commitments in April which will mean I have to be away - so can't read letters or check emails (no, I really won't be able to check emails). I would hate to start something and then find it's overtaken me and they win by default!

playgoer

Just spotted Coupon-Mad's reply - the amount was only £7, not exactly the big spender. However, the retail park's a long way from where I live, so I obviously was going there for a reason (to shop) not just to leave the car there while I went off somewhere else. That's one reason why I thought going bcak there might produce a result from the store. Anyway, on with the cut-and-paste!

playgoer

Oops - just cut-and-pasted but no idea where it's gone! Will try again here, and big apologies if it's turned up in the wrong place elsewhere.
I've added a couple of things at the beginning, but otherwise it's just the unchanged template. Should I put something about it being a late appeal?(As I've had three lettersnow)?

Dear{company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course,I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, sinceall liability to your company is denied on the following basis:




1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimateof loss to your company or the landowner.


2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was notsufficiently prominent to create any contract. The driver has used this retailpark before and has never been aware of any signage, not has the friend s/hewas shopping with, who has used the facilities many times.


3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts norto bring a claim for trespass.


4) The driver was a legitimate shopper,and spent money in three of the stores (will name them) paying cash attwo and using a credit card for the other (copy attached).


Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailedrejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) asyour signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failedto make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guessthe nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require abreakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculationwas determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explainhow/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention wastrivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate ofloss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof ofthe liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice byreturn and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee.Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requestedit, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer topark for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law(as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the caseof Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist,will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agentwill be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by LordJustice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You havebeen informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to sendfurther letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence ofyour persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify youractions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver,alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidencewhen clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will bereported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach ofyour Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I mustinform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of£18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include thecost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidateddamages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when Iprevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

ampersand

playgoer wrote: »

... I ask because I've got commitments in April which will mean I have to be away - so can't read letters or check emails (no, I really won't be able to check emails). I would hate to start something and then find it's overtaken me and they win by default!...

#
Lovely to have you back and smiling, playgoer.
Now, I, too am away for some weeks come later April, so had the same concern.

It took 78 and 71 days for my POPLA codes to be wrestled from these shysters and was eventually achieved via intervention by: Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk.
This is BPA's Steve Clarke.
I may have missed it, but can't find you insisting on one.

Put anything other than your customised letter onto a supplementary sheet.
Don't forget the COP, as Redx says[post 2]

The real experts will be along with their input shortly.

Coupon-mad

That is the right template and the receipts/store info should be helpful too.

playgoer

Thanks, ampersand. Should I insist on a POPLA code in the letter, then? Would like to do it by the book; I'll have another look at other people's letters to see how it should be worded, and where to put it. And is it OK to email it, or should I back it up with a hard copy to them, as you seem to imply in your post? Would just like to say I've been very heartened by all the help and support (sometimes firmly expressed!) that people on this forum have given me.

ampersand

I'm not one of the redoubtables[at 105 - that's how old I am today - I won't live long enough to chalk up my 50-year apprenticeship here], but I am very atd:-)and prefer to give them absolutely NO wriggle room.

POPLA code demand - yes, although others may say 'if they don't supply it with a standard rejection letter you have yet another stick to beat them with.' However, I know what all of this has meant for me and am thinking of your April absence too.
I'd send both formats - attention to the re-formatting that may be necessary online - and also email Steve Clarke, asking him to ensure you receive a POPLA code instantest, as you're aware others have had trouble doing so.
Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk

That's not 'advice' as such, playgoer, but what I would do.

ColliesCarer

Any attempts by them to say your too late to appeal are covered in point (b) Any obfuscation on your part,....

Coupon-Mad is best placed to advise you on whether anything else is needed but if you want to stengthen it you could add at the end of point (b) something like:


There is nothing whatsoever to prevent your company from considering a challenge at any stage. As far as I am concerned, I have made a valid challenge (date) and the clock is running.

If I do not receive a clear rejection along with a POPLA code within 35 days of the above date, I will regard the challenge as accepted and the matter closed

ColliesCarer

"I'm not one of the redoubtables[at 105 - that's how old I am today"

Congratulations - Happy Birthday Ampersand!

ampersand

ColliesCarer wrote: »

"I'm not one of the redoubtables[at 105 - that's how old I am today"

Congratulations - Happy Birthday Ampersand!

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Thanks for the chuckle cc - much needed atm.
Let me re-phrase - at 105 - that's how old I am feeling today[note the Jenny Josephs colour in there.:)